Posted on 03/05/2009 3:33:44 PM PST by Parmenio
I beg to differ. Some 80% of the population of modern-day Israel are agnostics or atheists. Their religiosity (and liberal politics, btw) is not much different than Europe, or the most secular parts of the USA.
I'm a big supporter of Israel--as it is the only independently democratic--and fully civilized--country in the Middle East. But should I support them merely (or mainly?) because most of them have a Jewish heritage? Should I support them, be they right or wrong, out of fear of being cursed by God, or somehow to quicken the 2nd Coming of Jesus? I think that kind of support verges on religious superstition, not a wise evaluation of the actual nation on the ground.
The nation-state of Israel today, should not be confused with the ancient theocracy of the Kingdom of David from 1000 BC.
Support Israel today? Yes, but hold them to the same standards as any other country on earth, not as some mystical favored (or spoiled?) child of God--particularly when the landslide of the population is irreligious.
Yes, I am an evangelical Christian--and scripture teaches--a spritual descendant and heir of Abraham. Please, however, do not call me a "Christian Zionist," only a Christian; as no follower of Christ should have divided loyalties.
Thank you for this information. It clears up some questions I had.
Thanks for the ping!
You are one strange looking bloke LOL -
God bless you too Sister!
Mel
You don't believe we do that? Please give an example of what you're talking about please.
About 6 years ago, I had the bad luck of being in a situation of having to listen to an America guy, supposedly an evangelical go after Bush, Republicans and wanting the destruction of Israel for a few minutes.
He and his wife were from N Wisconsin/ S Minnesota and now live in Medford/Ashland, Or. area. They were members of some so called born again evangelical group back in the mid west and SW Oregon. I never found out which group as I got the hell away from him.
He had been a spec op in the Nam era, serving in Laos. He now hates the American Military about as much as he hates Israel’s existance.
The guy and his wife changed personalities in seconds and went into their above hatreds.
Reading your post reminds me that most US Jews feel the same way you do, thus their voting behavior.
Very self destructive.
Nice roundup, and it only took the surrender monkey 6 weeks.
An excellent website which I have frequently referred friends and acquaintances over the past five years!
If people only knew and understood...
A.A.C.
Thanks.
http://www.sizers.org/
http://www.cc-vw.org/vicar.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Sizer
“Please, however, do not call me a “Christian Zionist,” only a Christian; as no follower of Christ should have divided loyalties.”
I never called you anything.
I stand by my statement. If a person supports a Jewish nation (in this case it has to be Israel b/c that’s what was prophesied in the Bible), then you are a Zionist. I’m sorry if you don’t like the meaning of the word.
I’m not sure what you mean by *divided loyalties*, as I’m a bit foggy atm, but when God says whoever blesses you will be blessed and whoever curses you will be cursed, He means what He says.
nice post...my feelings about Israel as well
You’re not familiar with Melanie Phillips are you?
She’s quite right about Islam but she has a decidely anti Christian bent too.
A very angry Jewish woman who sees some enemies where none exist.
Her works are a source of heatred threads here frequently.
Evangelicals and Islamists uniting is her way of bashing two of her enemies at once.
Like more than a few Jews, she eschews doctrinaire Christians.
My problem is this. Israel should be given NO favoritism, over any other country. In as much as they are a democratic republic, we should support them--in appropriate ways. If they were to become a murderous dictatorship, (which they certainly are NOT now) then we should also treat them in approriate ways--JUST LIKE ANY OTHER COUNTRY, regardless of some biblical blessing/curse, which SUPPOSEDLY applies to irreligious ethnic Jews today.
As a nation America pumps BILLIONS into Israel--a 1st World country, that does very well economically--in spite of all of her neighbors unfair boycott of her. Israel must learn to live on her own.
Then we also have African countries, with MILLIONS of very devout, evangelical Christians--living in brutal dictatorships in utter poverty--which compared to Israel, in private charities, we help out very little. Assuming you are an evangelical Christian, who now are "God's chosen people?" 7 million well fed and educated irreligious Israelis? Or 50 million severely persecuted and malnourished evangelical Christian Nigerians?
There's actually a charity, founded and funded by American evangelical Christians, to "bring Jews back to the holy land!" Christians spending big bucks to bring atheist/agnostic ethnic Jews from Russia and eastern Europe, to evangelize and bring them to faith in Jesus, their (and the) Messiah? NO. Just to transport them to, and establish them in Israel, so they can be on their way to hell there...
Yes its a free country, so people can do with their money what they want--but following the Jewish Messiah Jesus, does not mean that I should be play favorites with the descendants of his ethnic group....a group of people whose primary identifier unfortunately is not what they believe, but Who they reject.
FYI, I am quite familiar with Melanie Phillips, and regualrly read her blog in The Spectator. I have not seen anything in her writings that could be construed as anti-Christian.
Anyone who claims Evangelicals are teaming up with Islamists against Israel is either ignorant or willfully obtuse.
Evangelicals, fundamentalists and even run of the mill city Christians are ardent supporters of Israel
for many reasons...some kinsmen issues, some Biblical but most just good common sense reasoning
Ms Phillips has been pretty rough on Ratzinger just for starters
She is right about Islam and the decline of the west though...no doubt
She is talking about some Christians in England, not evangelicals in the US. If you have ever met many British people, you would now there is a difference.
lived in London 1986
hampstead lane and tottenham court road
worked in hatton garden...all Jews and Indians
precious few religious Christians in Merry Old these days
Well, I have counted Hank Hanegraaff as one American evangelical Christians on the side of Arabs, Gary DeMar as another. John Piper has also sounded something akin to Sizer at times. If you count Rick Warren as an evangelical then he is another guy. Mark Driscoll also downplays Israel and so is Bill Hybels (incidentally, Driscoll, Hybels, and Warren all have ties to Sizer’s church programmes. Piper and Hanegraaff are friends of Driscoll and DeMar is also doctrinal brother with Piper on the theological doctrinal issue of Israel)
DeMar has invited Stephen Sizer to speak on his pro-Arab agenda. One thing that strikes me is that in the last 3 years, even many otherwise pro-Arab secular European journalists and pundits start to say Israel is right to drive Hamas into the ground (I know one Chinese-Indonesian guy Martin Oei who is a secularist liberal Catholic, and he is a candidate of the upcoming election of the head of the Hong Kong Journalists Association), but Sizer begs otherwise. So you can see there is something more than journalism coverage that is at hand when these professing Christians say they are against Israel.
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