Posted on 02/13/2009 2:54:54 PM PST by libh8er
Minutes before Continental Flight 3407 plummeted to the ground killing all on board the pilots noticed a build up of ice on the plane's wings and windshield, an official said Friday. The plane was on its approach to Buffalo airport, New York state, when the crew spotted the problem, according to recordings taken earlier Friday from the aircraft's black boxes after the crash left 50 dead.
"The crew discussed significant ice buildup, ice on the windshield and leading edge of the wings," Steve Chealander, an official with the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), told a press conference.
"The crew briefed the weather to themselves in the cockpit and reported that visibility was three miles with snow and mist in the vicinity."
After the crew was given permission to drop to 11,000 feet, they saw the ice building up although the aircraft's instruments showed the de-icing system was on. The plane then engaged its landing gear, but suddenly began "a series of severe pitch and roll excursions within seconds" of opening the landing flaps, Chealander said.
"Then shortly after that, the crew attempted to raise the gear and flaps just before the end of the recording. And that's it from the recording that we have thus far," he added.
Flight 3407 carrying 49 passengers and crew on a flight from Newark in New Jersey, plunged onto a house in Clarence Center, New York state, also killing one man in the building. The accident happened six miles (10 kilometers) from the airport. Chealander said it was still early in the investigation and nothing was being ruled in or out as the NTSB and the FBI probe the causes of the crash.
It must be heartbreaking to hear this from the recorder as it happened.
/mark
Sounds like partial flap deployment on one wing.
That would explain roll and pitch going nuts.
Ice to blame perhaps?
As usual, have to wait for the NTSB report.
I knew roughly what the weather was from earlier reports. Five miles out is where the FAF (final approach fix) is on most instrument approaches. I told her they were iced up and re-configured the airplane to begin the descent at the FAF and stalled / spun or otherwise lost control.
It seems the NTSB is quickly coming to the same conclusion.
Chris - Private Pilot, Instrument Rated.
So, I guess the question is, were the deicing systems not turned on, which would indicate a false reading, or were they turned on but ineffective?
But you are right. An aircraft might be stable in one configuration, but not in another, if ice had built up.
Fellow Glocker (21, 22 and 23)
Would you say that pilot inexperience contributed? Not sure how many hours this guy had, but the fact that he was on a turbo prop commuter suggests he was newer.
There was a 3rd pilot on board, but as a passenger.
Same type of plane same scenario in Indiana few years ago. The FAA conducted lots of airborne tests on icing with that type of plane - same conclusion, icing brought it down when it jammed the control surfaces ....
Preoccupied ?
May have jammed on one wing only based on witness descriptions of the plane. Still wonder what they were referring to about the engine noise. Several eyewitness accounts of hearing strange noises but I couldn't figure out what they might mean.
Lift differential from partial deployment on one of the wings will explain the rolling. I am guessing there may also have been icing on the elevators which caused erratic pitching.
I receive the NTSB Reporter - unfortunately it’ll be several months before the one with transcripts and all will arrive ... ITMT - we’ll have all the media aviation specialists all over the place with their reasoning’s ....
“Would you say that pilot inexperience contributed?”
One of the reports says that he had around 3000 hours of experience and had been with the airline since 2005 I believe.
That said, I just flew two commuters today from Halifax to DC and DC to Philly. On both planes, the pilots looked about 21 years old. I fly commuter quite a bit and I’ve seen some that seem even younger. This seems to be a trend these days with the airlines - buy smaller aircraft and hire young inexpensive pilots to fly them.
After seeing the news this morning I was a little on edge - even though I’m an experienced business flier and my father is a pilot. These are just the kind of routes I regularly fly. On top of that, being Friday the 13th didn’t help. And on top of THAT, we had very gusty winds coming into DC and got really knocked about - enough a couple of times for the passengers to cry out. With some kid in the cockpit, it made for an exhausting day of flying.
Kids belong on bicycles - not behind the stick of a passenger plane.
“partial flap deployment on one wing.”
Ding, we have a winner
There is certainly a trade off between the laser sharp hand eye coordination of the young and the experience that comes with a little grey hair, a feature I prefer on my pilots.
The Hudson River pilot, Sully, was quite experienced, and obviously still quite dexteritious.
There are some great young pilots, like Lieutenant Shane Osborn, who was piloting the US Recon plane that collided with the Chinese fighter in 2001, setting off a hostage situation.
“partial flap deployment on one wing.”
Ding, we have a winner
Do you suppose the weird engine noises reported by witnesses on the ground may have been a result of the pilot trying to lift a wing with power while cutting the other side?
“There are some great young pilots, like Lieutenant Shane Osborn”
Military pilots are the exception, but unfortunately, most of those that get into commercial piloting these days do not come from the military.
My father flew A6 Intruders in the Navy. He tried his hand at commercial piloting with a now-defunct outfit known as North Central Airlines. After two years, he quit. Being a “bus driver” didn’t quite sit too well for someone used to a bit more excitement. I’ve been told that many military pilots experience the same thing, which is why the airlines tend to look elsewhere or train their own.
Pilot median salaries are a lot lower than they used to be. Pilots used to be “rich”, but most now are being paid on the same level as school teachers. Not very encouraging for those of us in the back.
I agree. JetBlue hires them pretty young and pays them peanuts.
At least the majors still have their old unionized pilots making good money.
“At least the majors still have their old unionized pilots making good money.”
You have to be careful there. The “Continental” flight today was operated by a small outfit called Colgan. US Airways operates planes by PSA, Piedmont, Mesa, Chautauqua, and - of all companies - Colgan Airways. These all fall under the US Air Express line. All of the majors have agreements like these - but you don’t really know who you’re on sometimes until the flight attendant announces it in her warmup.
I think the only true planes directly operated by the majors anymore are the big-jet, backbone hub-to-hub flights. Those are usually where you’ll find the Sullys. On the rest of the fleet, you’ll find a bunch of kids making thirty to forty grand-a-year, who spend their off (and sometimes on) hours chasing their flight attendants.
Ah to be young and a pilot...
I flew out of Buffalo right before one of the historic blizzards. I think it was 1978 or 79. They had a truck the size of a firetruck spraying deicing fluid on the wings until they were cleared for takeoff. Another of my Bitter Buffalo weather stories.
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