Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Great College Hoax
Forbes ^ | 2009-02-02

Posted on 01/15/2009 10:10:48 AM PST by rabscuttle385

Higher education can be a financial disaster. Especially with the return on degrees down and student loan sharks on the prowl.

BY KATHY KRISTOF

As steadily as ivy creeps up the walls of its well-groomed campuses, the education industrial complex has cultivated the image of college as a sure-fire path to a life of social and economic privilege.

Joel Kellum says he's living proof that the claim is a lie. A 40-year-old Los Angeles resident, Kellum did everything he was supposed to do to get ahead in life. He worked hard as a high schooler, got into the University of Virginia and graduated with a bachelor's degree in history.

Accepted into the California Western School of Law, a private San Diego institution, Kellum couldn't swing the $36,000 in annual tuition with financial aid and part-time work. So he did what friends and professors said was the smart move and took out $60,000 in student loans.

Kellum's law school sweetheart, Jennifer Coultas, did much the same. By the time they graduated in 1995, the couple was $194,000 in debt. They eventually married and each landed a six-figure job. Yet even with Kellum moonlighting, they had to scrounge to come up with $145,000 in loan payments. With interest accruing at up to 12% a year, that whittled away only $21,000 in principal. Their remaining bill: $173,000 and counting.

Kellum and Coultas divorced last year. Each cites their struggle with law school debt as a major source of stress on their marriage. "Two people with this much debt just shouldn't be together," Kellum says.

(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bankinglist; college; creditbubble; cwsl; debt; financelist; financialcrisis; highereducation; moneylist; studentloans; uva
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160161-162 next last
To: ReeseBN38416

I got the same degree in the 80’s for the exact same reason. No math!

The one thing it qualifies you for is a job with the government doling out working people’s money to the non-working. Institutional thievery.

I am now an independant retail store owner married to a tradesman with his own trade shop. The only class I ever took that has ever been any use to me was the business law I took as elective because I was so sick and tired of sociology, anthropology and psychology.


121 posted on 01/15/2009 12:07:50 PM PST by Valpal1 (Always be prepared to make that difference.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: Citizen Blade

That might work for a solo practitioner, but when you start getting up into the higher tier of law firms, your resume gets thrown into the trash if you don’t have a good law school listed at the top.

No question that when one is dealing with the a**h*** brigade that school matters more than ability or ethics. But who wants to work with them, instead the small pracices are the way to lots of monies when niched appropriately. And less (vulgar explitive)s.


122 posted on 01/15/2009 12:08:29 PM PST by Chickensoup (we owe HUSSEIN & Democrats the exact kind respect & loyalty that they showed us, Bush & Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 109 | View Replies]

To: Andonius_99

Way back in the 70s, that $3,000 seemed HUGE to me. And I was a music ed major - not a hot field at that time.


123 posted on 01/15/2009 12:09:41 PM PST by knittnmom (FReeper formerly known as 80 Square Miles)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 77 | View Replies]

To: Chickensoup

We can’t keep bailing out everything forever. No, prices have to go down to what their actual value is. There is not going to be a bailout. The days of colleges holding onto their billions of dollars in trust funds and not using them while raising tuitions and continuing to hound alumni for donations, while at the same time offering worthless sh1t degrees needs to come to an end.


124 posted on 01/15/2009 12:09:46 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 115 | View Replies]

To: Citizen Blade

“That might work for a solo practitioner, but when you start getting up into the higher tier of law firms, your resume gets thrown into the trash if you don’t have a good law school listed at the top.”

....that was my daughter’s experiance....she was an honors grad at UNC-Chapel Hill Law...she got on at a 2nd tier firm in Washington DC...the top tier firms there were all looking for Yale, Harvard, Chicago ect...even so, she started at $125K which was more money than anybody in our family ever made....and BTW, because we sent her to a state school she was debt free upon graduation.


125 posted on 01/15/2009 12:10:46 PM PST by STONEWALLS
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 109 | View Replies]

To: Mercat

Exactly. I do not feel sorry for these idiots at all.


126 posted on 01/15/2009 12:18:28 PM PST by Drill Thrawl (Who is John Galt?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Chickensoup
No question that when one is dealing with the a**h*** brigade that school matters more than ability or ethics.

Most of the shysters you see chasing ambulances went to crappy law schools, so I wouldn't be too quick to conclude that going to a less prestigious law school leads to a more ethical lawyer. As for ability, firms tend to play the odds- the Harvard lawyer is usually a safer bet to be a good attorney than someone who went to a fourth-tier law school.

But who wants to work with them, instead the small pracices are the way to lots of monies when niched appropriately

I got lucky when I lateraled a few years back to my current firm. I'm working at a large DC law firm with nearly a zero asshole quotient.

127 posted on 01/15/2009 12:18:28 PM PST by Citizen Blade ("A Conservative Government is an organized hypocrisy" -Benjamin Disraeli)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 122 | View Replies]

To: Hoosier Catholic Momma; CottonBall; TenthAmendmentChampion

Dave Ramsey fan cash is king ping!

Debt is much uglier than many people realize. This article is precisely why I kicked Sallie Mae out of her bedroom at my house.

If you would like to be added to the “Live like no one else, so that you can LIVE like no one else” list, feel free to Freepmail me.


128 posted on 01/15/2009 12:20:13 PM PST by CSM (IÂ’m jubilant! Now that the Dems are completely in charge, we can FINALLY blame THEM for everything!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: <1/1,000,000th%
Where did this goofball get the idea that a degree in history would make him money?

Probably from idiots who can't be bothered to read the entire column.

129 posted on 01/15/2009 12:23:22 PM PST by Jacquerie (Islam is a barbaric social and political system in religious drag.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: rabscuttle385
This article makes very little sense.
By the time they graduated in 1995, the couple was $194,000 in debt. They eventually married and each landed a six-figure job.
Sounds like it worked out very well actually. Would you accept a $70,000+ annual pay raise in a secure job if you had pay off ~$100,000 once?
With interest accruing at up to 12% a year ...
Sounds a bit high to me, but that works out to $23,000 of interest per year. With *two* 6-figure jobs, plus moonlighting, that should not be too bad.
... come up with $145,000 in loan payments ...
OK. So they paid the $23,000 in interest, and over $100,000 of principle. In other words, in just one year, they were able to pay off over 1/2 of a debt accumulated over 7 years.
that whittled away only $21,000 in principal
And here's where I call B.S.
130 posted on 01/15/2009 12:29:36 PM PST by TennesseeProfessor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: M203M4

They probably own $120,000 of brand new car, go out to eat at lunch and supper every day, pay a huge rent on some place that builds no equity and gives no mortgage deductions. Among other things.


131 posted on 01/15/2009 12:30:41 PM PST by Right Wing Assault (What's Obama's Secret?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: KansasGirl

Thanks. I wasn’t sure, but certainly thought that to be the case.


132 posted on 01/15/2009 12:31:52 PM PST by FreedomPoster (Obama: Carter's only chance to avoid going down in history as the worst U.S. president ever.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: Citizen Blade

I got lucky when I lateraled a few years back to my current firm.

Lucky or desensitized.


133 posted on 01/15/2009 12:35:04 PM PST by Chickensoup (we owe HUSSEIN & Democrats the exact kind respect & loyalty that they showed us, Bush & Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: Chickensoup
Lucky or desensitized.

Lucky. 9:30-6:30 are pretty much standard working hours for me. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've had to work weekends. I've never billed more than 1975 hours. Pay is just a little bit below market.

134 posted on 01/15/2009 12:38:02 PM PST by Citizen Blade ("A Conservative Government is an organized hypocrisy" -Benjamin Disraeli)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 133 | View Replies]

To: netmilsmom
You come out with the same degree and less debt.

It's not the same degree, though. If a person has an opportunity to get into a "name" school--particularly for post-graduate work--and chooses not to go because of money, that person is being foolish. There are a lot of opportunities available to people that graduate from those types of schools that simply aren't there to the person that graduated from the commuter school.

135 posted on 01/15/2009 12:41:01 PM PST by Publius Valerius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: rabscuttle385

Community College for 2 years. State college for 2 more. Low debt and a degree. You want a master’s? Get a job and save some money.


136 posted on 01/15/2009 12:44:51 PM PST by Poser (Sexual Chunky Monkey and willing to fight for oil)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Chickensoup
But who wants to work with them, instead the small pracices are the way to lots of monies when niched appropriately. And less (vulgar explitive)s.

Small practices have lots of middle class lawyers. Nothing wrong with that, but certainly not "lots of money." These firms do things like insurance defense work and pay their lawyers $50k for lots of work on repetitive and mundane cases. A decent living, but nothing special.

If you mean plaintiff's firms, then it would have to be a very unique situation, since you're never going to make equity partner in a plaintiff's firm unless you're bringing in lots of clients, and if that were the case, why are you partners with someone else in the first place?

137 posted on 01/15/2009 12:48:00 PM PST by Publius Valerius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 122 | View Replies]

To: Poser

A relative of mine who has five children, all worked their way through Rutgers Univ. in NJ. All very successful today with no loans.

Cousins who worked their way through Ohio St. Univ. and others.

A friend’s dau who works full time here at a major defense contractor during the day and student at Univ. of San Diego School of Law at night.

The key word is Work, why many who make it a profession attending school so they don’t have to work and face the real world.


138 posted on 01/15/2009 12:50:57 PM PST by SoCalPol (Reagan Republican for Palin - Jindal 2012)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 136 | View Replies]

To: iopscusa
IMO a History Degree would be worthwhile except that Most History depts have become post modern shitte-holes. The problem is the extreme bias of most of the History/Social Studies academia. The Universities are ripe for change...

Yeah, ditto most liturature and philosophy depts. I realized this years ago after reading Allan Bloom's Closing of the American Mind. That book was published during my last semester of college and confirmed to me that I'd been swindled. I remember thinking, "People will stop attending these tony schools and paying outrageous fees when they find out what's being done to them." Over the years I've been amazed at the staying power and effectiveness of the corrupt humanities depts. Their ability to reproduce "Leftism" (or Deconstructionism/Frankfurt School/neo-Marxism, whatever you want to call it) helped give us the voters who elected Obama.

It would be a great thing if the charlatans running the humanities dept scams had to face economic realities and scale down or close, just like any other losing enterprise.

139 posted on 01/15/2009 12:54:45 PM PST by ishmac ("There are no permanent defeats in politics because there are no permanent victories." Lady Thatcher)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: vikingd00d
A History degree? Perhaps, if he had studied something useful...

There are plenty of folks out there with libarts degrees who do very nicely for themselves. Even history degrees, believe it or not.
140 posted on 01/15/2009 12:57:09 PM PST by Antoninus (America didn't turn away from conservatism, they turned away from many who faked it. - Mark Sanford)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160161-162 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson