Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

On Hyperinflation (Dire predictions. Be forewarned.)
The Market Ticker - Commentary on the Capital Markets ^ | 1/12/09 | Karl Denninger

Posted on 01/12/2009 10:10:30 AM PST by randita

On "Hyperinflation"

The Market Ticker

Monday, January 12. 2009

at 09:44


On "Hyperinflation"

Let's put this to rest right here and now.

"Hyperinflation", or even "Serious Inflation" (similar to what we had in the 1970s) is impossible without a means to transmit the rise in prices into wages.

In today's United States that simply cannot happen for two reasons:

  • The union representation of workers has been eviscerated due to their own idiocy over the previous thirty years. In effect, they have no power to impact economic or labor policy - no matter what Gettlefinger thinks.
  • Outsourcing of work to China, India, Mexico and other nations makes wage demands impossible for American workers to enforce. Such demands simply result in the loss of the job to overseas workers.

As a consequence a hyper-inflationary or even seriously-inflationary spiral is impossible to sustain.

Think about your associates, people who you know in the middle class.

Now consider that a 10% inflation rate (moderately bad "serious inflation" ala 1970s) goes on for four years.

This raises the cost of living for everyone by 46%.

How many people who you know are saving 46% of their income? How many will survive a 46% increase in their cost of living?

Such an outcome will result in half or more of America becoming immediately homeless, hungry, and as a consequence out of work. It will as a consequence crash GDP by 50% or more immediately which in turn will crash income tax receipts by a like amount at both state and federal levels.

This will in turn crash prices, but at that point it's too late as now the price crash in turn destroys what remains of the business community and further crashes tax receipts, while at the same time foreign bond investors throw up their hands and say "screw you!", cutting off all foreign capital inflows to the government.

Down that road lies immediate insurrection - that is, the violent overthrow of the government. You are delusional if you think the military could stop such a thing - 150 million Americans, maybe even 200 million of the 300 million in our population? Not a prayer in hell, even if all the Americans had was pitchforks, torches and a gallon of gasoline, and they don't - they have firearms, and lots of them. Even the Chinese, who are (by demonstrated act) willing to roll tanks over their own people would have no chance against 100 million of their citizens if hunger ever trumps fear.

This didn't happen in the 1970s because we had vastly more union work representation and they were able to force wages to keep pace for the average working man. While the pinch was bad (I grew up in it and remember it vividly) society never degenerated because the self-reinforcing crash of production, jobs and tax income never happened, and as a consequence the sort of mass-unemployment, disenfranchisement and loss of essential human needs did not come about.

Today the average working man works for WalMart or some other non-union shop and has no wage pricing power; ergo, there is absolutely no way to prevent the implosion from initiating.

The government must not engage in any sort of policy that could lead to this outcome. Absolute protection at the top levels of government must be put in place to prevent it, because if this occurs then everything - absolutely everything - that we know and love about America disappears.

This is where the Peter Schiffs and McHughs are wrong in their hyperinflation thesis and their "defensive" measures to try to do something about it (or worse, McHugh's belief that not only is this inevitable but that the government should intentionally cause it through something like a "money drop" to households.)

They are wrong because if this outcome occurs there will be no United States of America, your gold will be confiscated and/or rendered worthless by executive fiat, and at approximately the same time an angry marauding mob consisting of half the population of the country will literally loot and burn everything to the ground.

Vengence inevitably follows when justice is denied for a long enough or in an egregious enough fashion. We have seen this with Rodney King and now with the apparent BART assasination of a suspect in Oakland, and that was one man who was abused at the hands of government. Make the abuse half the population and there is a zero chance that civil and political order is maintained.

Pray that our nation's leaders aren't stupid enough to set in motion such a course of action either by accident or under the foolish belief that they can "keep the outcome under control".

Time is running out to demand and obtain justice folks. America's clock is literally ticking towards zero.

Facebook On "Hyperinflation"

Digg On "Hyperinflation"

Bloglines On "Hyperinflation"

Bookmark On "Hyperinflation"  at YahooMyWeb

Bookmark On "Hyperinflation"  at reddit.com

Bookmark On "Hyperinflation"  at NewsVine

Bookmark On "Hyperinflation"  at blogmarks

Stumble It!

Trackbacks

No Trackbacks

Comments
Discussion takes place at The Tickerforum Comment Zone (registration required to post)

Quicksearch

Calendar

Back

January '09

Forward

Mon Tue

Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun

      1

6

11
13

14 15 16 17 18

19 20 21 22 23

24 25
26 27 28

29 30 31  

2008 Review, 2009 Forecast



Top Referers

www.tickerforum.org (3965)
www.stumbleupon.com (2492)
www.google.com (1353)
ml-implode.com (1186)
patrick.net (1042)
www.denninger.net (811)
www.newsgator.com (275)
www.321gold.com (235)
www.fedupusa.org (230)
my.yahoo.com (223)

Legal Disclaimer

The content on this site is provided without any warranty, express or implied. All opinions expressed on this site are those of the author and may contain errors or omissions.

NO MATERIAL HERE CONSTITUTES "INVESTMENT ADVICE" NOR IS IT A RECOMMENDATION TO BUY OR SELL ANY FINANICAL INSTRUMENT, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO STOCKS, OPTIONS, BONDS OR FUTURES.

The author may have a position in any company or security mentioned herein. Actions you undertake as a consequence of any analysis, opinion or advertisement on this site are your sole responsibility.

Looking for "The Best of Market Ticker"? Check out
Ticker Classics.

Visit the forum to discuss this and other investing-related topics; see the FAQ on the forum for information about Gold Donor status.

All material herein Copyright 2007/2009 Karl Denninger. All rights reserved.

 


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; cwii; economy; government; hyperinflation; moneylist
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120121-134 next last
To: randita

I forget to mention that the economic crisis will force the US to take its eyes off another growing storm, the coming cold war with Russia and China. These countries have a fall back plan for economic collapse, and that is going back to Communism and planning wars. Remember that this also happened in WWII with Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, the Soviet Union, and Imperial Japan.


101 posted on 01/12/2009 4:44:29 PM PST by Thunder90
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Publius

“McHugh has suggested that Congress refund 5 to 10 years worth of income taxes to individuals and small businesses with the proviso that the money be used to pay down debt: credit card debt, student loan debt, car loan debt and — most importantly — mortgate debt. The remainder could be spent or invested. Those who were wise enough to avoid debt could spend or invest the full amount.”

I don’t see as how Congress would ever possibly vote to refund 5-10 years of taxes, even if it were to their long-term advantage. If they were to pass a massive money drop, they’d do what they always do, which is raise taxes on rich people.


102 posted on 01/12/2009 4:50:15 PM PST by Tublecane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee
By the time we get to that point (regional secession, even “virtual” secession) the USA won't even be recognizable.

Things are happening a lot faster than anybody would like to admit. The MSM and government leadership has been caught lying so many times and to such depth that I'm surprised that anybody believes them anymore about ANYTHING. But I believe from what I hear that the bad economic situation is a lot worse and a lot more progressed than anybody who is supposed to know will admit right now. They (our leadership) are really in a tough spot (not that they don't deserve to be there!). But so long as they let the crazies predict gloom and doom while they pull a Wizard of Oz act from behind the curtain, they can hold off the results of masses of panicked people until the scope of the problem simply can't be covered any longer. In truth, a lot more people are realizing how big and bad the problem is and it's getting hard for even our professional liars in D.C. to cover up for much longer.

I say we're officially screwed. It's already happened, and there's nothing that the government or anybody else can do about it. The only people who HAVE money aren't spending. This concerns me, because if our dim witted leaders ever really figure this out, the logical conclusion is that they use aggression and force to take from those who have. Or (and this is a paranoid suggestion), they'll simply demonize those who have and create a division between them and the have-nots and then we'll have a big turkey shoot when the mass robbery starts. But the news will report that a bunch of rich tighty-whities with guns shoot a bunch of poor people who were unarmed Hmmmm...I seem to have read this somewhere recently.... wink/wink...nudge/nudge. :-)

Either way you break it down logically, it's a bad scene on the horizon...that much is certain.
103 posted on 01/12/2009 4:58:41 PM PST by hiredhand (Understand the CRA and why we're facing economic collapse - see my about page.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: razorback-bert
Here's another wave sequence relating the peaks to wars

Click on the Graphic for a High Resolution PDF

104 posted on 01/12/2009 5:32:04 PM PST by An Old Man (Use it up, Wear it out, Make it do, or Do without.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 100 | View Replies]

To: MittFan08

RE “Schiff bought into the utterly false notion that the emerging Asian economies had decoupled from the US economy

I noticed that too. It could happen in the future but he missed it. It is possible that recover without the US by dumping dollars.

I think his message is a good one for Republicans that post-Bush stand for nothing . GWB has made tax increases popular, and socialism.


105 posted on 01/12/2009 5:46:23 PM PST by sickoflibs (Obama : " I will claim my 1B $ federal contracts to local gov (unions) is all private sector")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: hiredhand

I love the Spanish expression for “between a rock and a hard place.”

They say, “Between the wall and the sword.”

That’s where we are now. It doesn’t hurt much until it’s too late.


106 posted on 01/12/2009 6:35:28 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 103 | View Replies]

To: Publius

Great analysis. Thanks for your insight.

Obama is going after a political solution, not an economic one. In doing so, the pain is forestalled, but when it finally comes, it will be the harbinger of a fatal illness.


107 posted on 01/12/2009 6:58:57 PM PST by randita (If the government could "fix" the economy, we'd never have a recession.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: B4Ranch

Worth a look...


108 posted on 01/12/2009 7:31:33 PM PST by JDoutrider (Heading to Galt's Gulch... It is time.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: hiredhand

You might have a point. The Russians are sure acting like the US is history. Perhaps they know how the geopolitical chess game will end. The West played a strong opening game, forced the East into a Russian Gambit, which has incredibly succeeded and now the end game is certain. So the Russians waltz into Georgia, public opinion be damned. Russians turn off the gas to Europe, public opinion be damned. Islamic protestors own the streets of Europe, public opinion be damned. The East knows the end and knows there is nothing we can do about it. And quite frankly, with all the idiot grifters running DC, how can we possibly have a good outcome ? Trillion dollar deficits ? Its over. Time to plan the rebuild IMHO.


109 posted on 01/12/2009 7:54:01 PM PST by justa-hairyape
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 103 | View Replies]

To: Leisler
The Federal Government will do, take, force, impoverish, print what ever it has to do to take care of those near and dear to it. And, we are not the ones.

You're right. We are not the ones.

110 posted on 01/12/2009 8:12:45 PM PST by GOPJ ("A consensus of 100 scientists is undone by one fact." - - Einstein (take that Al Gore))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: randita
They are wrong because if this outcome occurs there will be no United States of America, your gold will be confiscated and/or rendered worthless by executive fiat, and at approximately the same time an angry marauding mob consisting of half the population of the country will literally loot and burn everything to the ground.

Am I missing something? All I read in this article is that hyperinflation could not possibly happen - and only because the outcome would be very bad for a lot of people. This is not at all convincing. It's more like the author is trying to convince himself, but not even using facts or logic to do so. Only because people would suffer, therefore it won't happen. Denial is stress free, but not always correct.
111 posted on 01/12/2009 9:01:53 PM PST by CottonBall
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wastoute
I dunno, I see this all as being a GOOD thing. This is how we get our country back...

I have the same thoughts. There's no way (IMO) to change the socialist tide and entitlement-attitude among people. Except through severe economic hardships.
112 posted on 01/12/2009 9:07:51 PM PST by CottonBall
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: An Old Man

I believe the $53 Trillion was based on 2007 numbers, without the latest bailouts of late 2008 included.

So we’re probably sniffing $56 Trillion+ and growing.

Sickening.


113 posted on 01/12/2009 9:30:47 PM PST by adm5 (YOU CANNOT FIX CAPITALISM WITH SOCIALISM! -Glenn Beck)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: Xenophon450
Exchanging something with no inherent value(paper) for actual goods and services is called Fraud... when the layman does it. So in essence the US Government is going to perpetrate the largest fraud in the history of the world by Hyperinflating our currency to pay these suckers? Wars have been started for less.

What's the alternative? Obama cutting off all social entitlement programs, and eliminating the military, and cutting social security benefits to the tidal wave of baby boomers about to swamp the system??!

Nope, just crank up the printing presses! A lot easier.

114 posted on 01/12/2009 9:35:43 PM PST by adm5 (YOU CANNOT FIX CAPITALISM WITH SOCIALISM! -Glenn Beck)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies]

To: dalereed
Where n the constitution does the government get the right to house and feed anyone.

Where in the constitution does the government get the right to do 90% of everything it does?

115 posted on 01/12/2009 9:43:40 PM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: randita
You are delusional if you think the military could stop such a thing

Stop such a what? Ours are at least as good as Gus, I should hope!

116 posted on 01/12/2009 9:45:09 PM PST by cynwoody
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: randita

I am not familiar with Denninger....who is he and what are his credentials?


117 posted on 01/12/2009 9:45:29 PM PST by Freedom56v2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: adm5
I concur, although I doubt China will take this lying down. If they have even half of the intelligence we give them credit for, they are already trying to diversify out of their dollars, in anticipation of this no-holds-barred orgy of debt monetized stimulus.
118 posted on 01/12/2009 9:55:50 PM PST by Xenophon450 ( The stain of freedom, he's washed it out... whoÂ’s rocking the cradle? I have no doubt...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 114 | View Replies]

To: nina0113
"I'm composting absolutely everything to improve my soil for all the food I intend to grow. No few little salad tomato plants this year - gotta get serious. "

My neighbor bought 15 cases (12 jars in each case) of canning jars/caps this evening at Wal-Mart.

119 posted on 01/12/2009 10:01:29 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies]

To: CottonBall
There's no way (IMO) to change the socialist tide and entitlement-attitude among people. Except through severe economic hardships.

It's called Aversion Therapy.

There are two books you should read. One is Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. We're living through the book now.

But there is another book, long out of print, that is worth a read. It's The Devil's Advocate by Taylor Caldwell. It was written in 1952 and has since disappeared. The book is about how a few heroes used aversion therapy to ovethrow a communist dictatorship ruling America.

120 posted on 01/12/2009 10:19:24 PM PST by Publius (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peopleÂ’s money.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 112 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120121-134 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson