Posted on 12/29/2008 7:21:36 PM PST by Sen Jack S. Fogbound
Jefferson, in Some Cases, Could be Called a Prophet.
When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe. -- Thomas Jefferson
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -- Thomas Jefferson
It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle, which, if acted on, would save one-half the wars of the world. -- Thomas Jefferson
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. -- Thomas Jefferson
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. -- Thomas Jefferson
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. -- Thomas Jefferson
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -- Thomas Jefferson
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -- Thomas Jefferson
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas, which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. -- Thomas Jefferson
Very Interesting Quote: In light of the present financial crisis, it's interesting to read what Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:
'I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.'
“Can you prove he was a rapist?”
There’s good evidence that he wasn’t:
http://www.ashbrook.org/articles/mayer-hemings.html
You won’t see that mentioned in any liberal texts in public schools or most universities though. There’s is too much politics involved, which, btw, is how the rumor started in the first place. It’s akin to Palin’s baby being her daughter’s and spun by the same type of people.
>>**I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.’**
> I have my doubts about that quote being Jefferson’s.
The first part on banking is in a letter to John Taylor... here: (last full paragraph)
http://history.liberatedtext.org/confounders/tj_bergh/v15/18160528johntaylor.html
The rest is “spurious”. See:
http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/Private_Banks_(Quotation)
> Not Jefferson.
Yes, Jefferson.
In a letter to William Stephens Smith, Nov. 13, 1787: http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/P/tj3/writings/brf/jefl64.htm
Well, then guess what? There was some plagerizin' goin' on back then. I don't know who copied whom, but two separate people don't come up with essentially the same phrase at the same time, each on their own.
One square mile of land surrounded by roadway is not efficient. Y'all need big land to farm. Also, he died broke because of family debts. Too much speculation in the new Republic.
I do care and I admire Jefferson. Especially his thought that: "That government is best which governs the least."
Calm down. Y'all don't live i the parts that are "blessed" with the national survey. You can't efficiently farm one square mile these days. Jefferson is a great guy and we love him to bits out here. But, the 40 acres and a mule thing just doesn't work out here in the West. It tore up the land and made it very inefficient for farming on the scale we need to feed ourselves. Food prices are going up as we have to farm around the WalMarts and big box restaurants, etc. Heck Obama wants to tax cow farts now! Wouldn't have to if folks would just live in those 6,000 year old cities instead of turning precious farm land into Mc Mansions!
Ok, let me explain this to y'all... Dividing a good portion of the continent into one square mile plots surrounded by roads and then dividing these plots into 40 acres (with or without the mule) has created a situation IN THE MIDWEST AND THE WEST (that's West of the hills, for y'all back East) where very fertile farm land is being converted into suburban sprawl at an alarming rate. Good farm land is lost forever and the urban population( who likes to eat) doesn't like the smell, sounds and tastes of agriculture. Farmers are being land taxed out of business and the pressure to sell farm land to developers is huge. This is creating a big problem for local governments and is destroying farming in many areas of the West. Y'all don't have this problem back East because you didn't chop your land into 40 acre parcels. So, your vistas are beautiful and your farm/development issues tend to center around the fringes of big cities. I don't have time to lecture today but, please feel free to travel outside of your area and see for yourself what the National Survey has done to the rest of the continent. Then, you can shoot your mouth off and not sound like a fool! It will be great!
With all due respect, do you have ANY idea tbe price — in physical and economic terms — he and most of the other 56 paid to leave us what they did?
He died broke because he was absent from the farm and home he loved at Monticello and could not devote all the time and thought necessary to successfully run a large agricultural enterprise.
To imply that Jefferson’s destitution at the end of his life was due to some character flaw or flaws seems more than just a bit petty and small.
I was stationed in the Washington area with the Air Force but never made the trip to Monticello. My wife and I corrected that oversight a few years ago. In the intervening years I had become deeply concerned with the course America was taking.
After visiting the beautiful home in which Mr. Jefferson – due to his service to the nation he helped create – spent but a few years, we made our way to the small family cemetery down the hill from the house. We were the only ones there and as we approached, I felt myself overcome with emotion. Not certain where that emotion would take me, I asked my wife to go on to the car.
As I stood reading the modest inscription on his headstone, I wept. For Mr. Jefferson. For ALL of the 56.
And for America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIo8FJJMps8
I was saddened to see that the only real artifacts in the house that belonged to Jefferson were a few books in the library room just to the left of the entrance. Everything else was sold to help pay his debts after he died.
Past that, Jefferson was, I think, our greatest founding father (Washington fans, please start flaming now...) and if we follow his advice (except for the national survey thing) we will all be better off!
Thanks
As a descendant of one of these men, I have seen the impact of their bravery on a personal level.
“Well, then guess what? There was some plagerizin’ goin’ on back then. I don’t know who copied whom, but two separate people don’t come up with essentially the same phrase at the same time, each on their own.”
This might help you:
Jefferson’s letter to William Stephens Smith, November 13, 1787. “The Papers of Thomas Jefferson”.
Bertrand Barere de Vieuzac comment in a speech to the French national assembly, January 16, 1793.
While Jefferson was in France as a US ambassador, it is likely that he may have used the phrase in conversations with the revolutionaries there and it got passed on to Barere, who then used it later.
Huh? What does slavery in Africa have to do with Thomas Jefferson’s personal hypocrisy?
Y'all don't have this problem back East because you didn't chop your land into 40 acre parcels.
Are you perhaps familiar with New Jersey? Across the river from either New York City or Philly? Or the Baltimore/D.C. suburbs? Is this not "urban sprawl"? Without the benefit of "40 A. parcels"?
Do you find the "urban sprawl" of the Midwest offensive simply because the land is flat and undifferentiated? But "urban sprawl" can follow creek valleys and ridgelines just as easily as it can follow section lines.
Or do you find "urban sprawl" offensive because it allows the middle-class to escape "the urban experience"? Unfortunately, though, some folks actually prefer "the suburban experience" (relatively low cost, relatively large space, better public schools, etc.) to the "urban experience" (higher cost, smaller space, godawful schools, etc.).
Why shouldn't they be allowed to exercise their better judgment?
Even if it offends you...???
“... But these rights and liberties in the US Constitution had never been extended to any men, anywhere, until it was done at the founding of the US. .... (T)the recognition of these rights and liberties by a government for its citizens was a remarkable achievement and step forward at that time. It gave others an example to consider, and it gave the descendants of slaves a constitution they could look to and petition that it also be applied to them. ...
... how freedoms have developed slowly over the centuries and millennia, ... the remarkable advances that took place at the founding of the USA? “ Will88
The gift our FF’s and TJ gave us is so remarkable, so unheard of and so unique in the world, the tarnishing of these great men's memory is thoughtless and inconsiderate. Keep in mind, these men were human and subsequently fallable. But rather than focus on their shortcomings, appreciate and be grateful for what they sacrificed and did manage to give us.
As far as your comment >Huh? What does slavery in Africa have to do with Thomas Jefferson’s personal hypocrisy?<
First, your opinion that TJ was a hypocrite is just that, an opinion. You're welcome to it just don't expect me to hitch my wagon to that baggage of victim hood mentality.
Second, slavery seems to be your big hangup thus my reference to both african slavery today as well as the instances of slavery in America that is being fostered upon the child victims by migrating africans as related in the previously mentioned thread(s).
Again, rather than carping about conditions 200 years ago, do something about the existing horrors of slavery today.
Do something positive.
It's still simple. Slaves were not considered to be on the same level as men who were not slaves. It had been that way since recorded history and before, and not just black slaves, but slaves of all colors and ethnic groups. That was the way of the world. So, when Jefferson said, "all men are created equal", he did not include slaves in his official capacity as drafter of the DofI. I can't say what he thought personally, nor can you, but I think he was intelligent enough to know what he could and could not declare in his declaration.
Those such as you who are gifted with 20/20 hindsight and moral superiority concerning events of more than two centuries ago, well, it's just a pity you weren't around in 1776 to correct all those morally deficient founders. I'm sure you could have changed the world with your brilliance alone.
But people who are able to have some perspective over the centuries of history know that all wrongs are never righted with one fell swoop. The accomplishments of the founders was remarkable, whether you can put it in historical context or not. And, read carefully, the rights extended to citizens and most in America with the constitution and Bill of Rights have not yet been extended to the majority of the present inhabitants of this earth. Why is that?
are There just some who believe they have something to gain with their fault finding of everything American. Some are just old leftist haters who resent everything American, some think their claimed victim status is their most precious possession, and others are just the victims of a limited amount of mis-education and PC indoctrination, and they lack the insight and intelligence to work their way out of it into a more accurate historical perspective.
You're almost speaking in code. People might agree with you if you'd spell out more clearly. But, yes, here in the southeast, 1 1/2 acres will support a cow/calf unit. I understand it can take 20 acres and more in many places out west. Maybe you're dissatisfaction involves federal policy re: western lands? But how does that relate to Jefferson and surveys?
All is forgiven since we are not to judge the present (Politically incorrect) but the deconstruction of the past produces surges of moral superiority up and down our spines. How "enlightening" our soceity, made up of present day hypocrites, is when condeming the past.
You have nailed it. Very well done.
Once the land was surveyed and sold to pioneers it was too late to re-think land use based on natural features and conditions. Its 36 square miles forever! Very hard to set aside platted land for big ag or any use other than small farms and subdivisions. Other than the back to Earth sustainable crowd, farming interests have struggled for decades with arbitrary borders that don't make geographic sense. Not code. Just Google western ag issues and see for yourself. I'm not blaming Jefferson. Its just the way it is 240ish years later.
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