Posted on 12/23/2008 10:29:59 AM PST by lewisglad
Tis the season of empty gestures! Inaugural pastor Rick Warren rewrote his website so it no longer says gays are poison to his congregation. In fact a whole long lecture about gays was deleted.
Here's the old content, via AmericaBlog, via Dave Winer, where Warren explains why gays can't join his church:
This was from a website section called "Small Group Questions About Saddleback Church." The above is part of an answer to the question "What does the Bible say about homosexuality?" Also part of the answer, in the original, was a description of homosexuality as "an enormous sin" and a comparison of being gay to being alcoholic.
Another question encouraged people to tithe to the church even while paying off credit card debts. 10 percent! "The Bible is very clear about believers giving the first 10 percent to the Lord."
Now that Warren has become an embarrassment to the president-elect, everything, the whole stupid section, is gone. Trying to visit the page will either get you a database error or redirected here. Because Warren now realizes his gay-bashing is a manifestation of the vile sin of bigotry and intolerance.
Ha ha, just kidding, he's temporarily shunning his true beliefs to be on television in front of the whole world and gain popularity, sort of like an instrument of the devil, or maybe in this case it's God, or just Rahm Emanuel dressed as an angry, demanding, freak-fingered demon, haunting his bedroom.
Warren has never said, “Gays not welcomed.” Never.
That is the mischaracterization of a pro-gay/anti-Christian activist author. And, like many other FReepers, you’ve fallen for his lies.
Don’t you love how this guy accuses Warren of “gay-bashing”?
From a non-Christian worldview, of course, it IS all about personal beliefs.
A Christian, however, does not judge others’ behavior based on opinion, but on Scripture.
In other words, bubba, it’s not Warren who’s judging your behavior, it’s the Word of God.
Argue with that, not with the messenger. The messenger is decorated dust.
“He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur.”
Which tells me that I am right, God does not sigle out ONE group of sinners, neither should Warren.
Struggling?
That's a nice "moderate" word.
Stop struggling.
Come out from her that ye may not partake of her plagues!
Well, if Warren had that removed from his website (and I never saw it in the first place) — that sounds like he is trying to be *appear* to be something different (now...) than he appears to be after the wording is removed.
If he believed this is what the Word of God says about gays, in the first place, it should have remained on the website. That’s disturbing, to me, to see that it has been removed.
But, it doesn’t really surprise me, seeing that it’s Rick Warren... :-)
“Your concern about “the cross” and “the glory of God” is also puzzling. Your vulgarity and anger do not reflect a life of humble reverence for the cross of Christ or a concern for God’s glory.”
I am not perfect and am quick to anger when I perceive that a purported man of God is using his position to advance basically, himself. I also got the impression that gays were not welcome in his church, although I admit you make a good point vis a vis membership. I used to fellowship with a large congregation that openly welcomed all sinners to attend no matter the sin. But as you state, NO openly, unrepentant sinner was allowed into “membership” or leadership within the church. If that is all that the issue is truly over, then the auther of this piece ought to be sued for libel.
Let’s see
The Truth of the Word of God
OR
the fame and notoriety of being inaugural pastor....
hmmm... hard choice, eh?
I put homosexuality right in there with adultery, heterosexual, pre marital sex, bigamy and other sexual immoralities. Christians have to repent, and put sexual immorality behind them. That goes for gays, like it goes for other Christians.
Because once they get in, they infect a church with beliefs such as "homosexuality is not a sin". You just quoted "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". However, according to homosexuals, they have not sinned just by being homosexual. If homosexuality is not a sin, then neither is adultery or fornication, and if they are not sins, then neither is lying or stealing, etc.
We are supposed to go to church to worship the God who paid for our sins on the cross, and granted salvation to us who do not deserve it. People who get in God's face and in the face of churchgoers about how they are not sinners kind of ruins the whole thing, doesn't it? These people are trying to do away with the concept of sin altogether.
Likewise for our family. Incredible how God provides and proves that blessings come to those who tithe.
What’s your story/stories? Reply using mail if necessary.
Yes, I defend Warren from the undeserved attacks. He is a sinner, as am I, as are you, but undeserving of these ill-informed attacks. And so I defend him. Yes.
I am not deflecting Obama’s pro-abortion stance. Abortion is murder, and Obama’s facilitating it is reprehensible. I have no clue how you came to believe that I’m defending Obama’s pro-abortion views. No clue. I have marched in DC against abortion, jrooney. I have visited representatives offices and talked to them about the pro-life issue. I have carried signs outside of pro-abortion meetings. I’m enthusiastically pro-life, and here you are accusing me of being ambivalent about it?
Please stop mischaracterizing me, jrooney. Maybe step away from the computer until you’re in your right mind.
Sheesh. Sharks smelling blood....
He certainly deserves a lawsuit, though I suspect it would cause more problems for Warren should he initiate one.
"Warren sounds like he is telling it like it is, and not backing down on the homosexual issue."
Bard and Theo, I'm with you.
What amazes me is how many Freepers can't spend more than a millisecond analyzing WHY Warren might be making his decisions.
Remember the interviews with McCain and Obama back in March or April? Warren didn't retreat one iota from the Bible or faith. Obama looked terrible.
Mature Christians like Warren are almost commanded to venture out and associate with the unworthy and sinners. Why shouldn't Warren do the same?
Here's my point. If he starts to retreat on abortion, or gays, then he's toast. If he starts to proclaim that social justice and global warming are top priorities, then I'll give up on him. But is he witnesses constantly, daily, to Obama, and Obama listens, then Warren has done an incredibly wonderful job of witnessing.
It's no different than Christian college students standing in the middle of the red light districts, handing out gospel tracts.
Do you think Obama received much faith listening to Jeremiah Wright for 20 years? No.
The Freepers that are apoplectic about this are drinking too much coffee. We have to watch what Warren does with his new friendship. What if he mentions that we're all broken and need salvation in his invocation? Wow!
I would say everyone is welcome on the condition they SHALL reject their sinful behavior.
Whatever the sinful behavior.
I think Warren is doing what all media celebrity pastors do, he is capitulating in order to protect his celebrity status.
This would be no different than allowing the money changes back into the church to contiue to be money changers just because “everyone is welcome”.
Obama facilitates murdering babies.
Jesus’ companion Judas facilitated the death of the Son of God, the only real innocent human to ever have been born.
I await your reply.
“Which tells me that I am right, God does not sigle out ONE group of sinners, neither should Warren.”
According to the Bible, no sinners, who want to continue in their sins, are welcome. The only ones who are welcome are those willing to turn away from their sin.
Your anger at RW seems to be a reaction at how the “reporter” framed this issue. I sincerely doubt that RW’s church is a one issue church. You would be better served to check it out on your own rather than letting a biased reporter do it for you.
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