Supreme Court rejects Obama case

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/orders/courtorders/120808zor.pdf ^

[cycle of discernment]

too bad

[browardchad]

So far no one has presented any "evidence" in any of these cases because evidence is only evidence after it has been introduced in a courtroom, made subject to cross-examination or stipulation and then "admitted" as evidence by the judge. Obama has not been required by any court to present evidence and none of the plaintiffs in these many cases has presented any evidence either. Just saying something is so is not evidence.

I'm not a lawyer, but if the argument is a Constitutional issue, then there wouldn't be any material evidence required, but rather citations from previous opinions, legal scholars, quotations from the Founders writings, etc. would be sufficient.

If however, the argument that the computer-generated Certificate of Live Birth that he's presented isn't sufficient proof of citizenship, then yes, I would think you'd need evidence. And time, and money. It would probably entail researching the Hawaiian statutes in effect in 1961 relating to issuance of birth certificates, plus any archived publications of the Dept. of Health from that period, caselaw from state and circuit courts relating to citizenship, rulings of the Hawaiian AG, legislative records relating to the relevant laws, archived newspaper reports of birth certificate fraud or system tampering/malfunction, and a possible real-life example of  a person whose Hawaiian COLB does not reveal the actual facts of their birth, such as an adoptee, etc.

If the argument is that he was born in Kenya, then I think you'd have to provide some actual evidence to prove it. So far (and this doesn't apply to Donofrio, because his was a Constitutional issue), all I've seen are statements that "it's been said that" or "there are reports of" or I believe in one case, a recording of an African grandmother saying he was born in Kenya in a phone conversation with a third party. (I doubt that O's elderly and illiterate grandmother would qualify as a credible witness, since she's also told quite the opposite story.)

If the argument is that the COLB scan posted on the internet is counterfeit, then wouldn't it make sense to ask the Obama campaign if a qualified document expert could examine the physical document? If they refused, then the refusal itself would be suggestive.

[tyke]

Thanks, Sibre — I hadn’t seen that. Explains a lot though, and is yet another dud in this increasingly ridiculous kerfuffle.

[Technical Editor]

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/orders/courtorders/120808zor.pdf

As a previous poster already stated, it’s unclear whether just the stay was denied — or the entire case. The heading under which Donofrio’s case is listed is “Orders in Pending Cases.”
The case is not listed under “Certiorari Denied.” However, Donofrio says there was some procedural confusion, so it really isn’t clear at all at present whether the entire case was passed over or not.

[arderkrag]

Well, goodbye America.

It was nice knowing ya.

Hmm...there's still land out side of my house, so it's not physically gone...the government is still in place, so it's not legally gone...

Yep, America's still here.

[ari-freedom]

“It is now time to get serious in the fight against his POLICIES. “

the people voted for his policies.

[andy58-in-nh]

Obama and his associates scare the living crap out of me. I am deeply troubled that we know virtually nothing about this man (thanks largely to the mainstream media) and what we do know is less than encouraging, to say the least.

I didn't get into this thread to get into a pi**ing contest, but only to suggest that maybe - *maybe* - we ought to consider that this entire effort is distracting us.

Let's assume that Obama tricked us all and lied, and he's really foreign-born - after all, that is possible. Do you really think the results of the election are going to be overturned? That he is going to step down before taking office? We don't even have Constitutional guidelines for succession for such an eventuality, for one thing. And even if we figured something out (hello, Supreme Court...) think for a moment what such a crisis might do to the financial markets (which are not really too stable, as you've noticed), not to mention what might happen on the ground in places like Newark, Detroit, Oakland, Philadelphia, Chicago. Maybe that's not a good enough reason to simply let it go, but I think it is a real reason, nonetheless.

[Mojave]

Like I said before, I think it's because it wouldn't solve anything.

That's not an answer, Obama apologist.

Lemme try again:

Why won't Obama release his birth certificate?

[Sibre Fan]

IrishPennant, you’re comparing the reports from two DIFFERENT newspapers.

The one on the left in your post is from the Star Bulletin. see http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/ObamaBirthStarBulletin.jpg.

The one on the right is a closeup from the Honolulu Advertiser. See
http://www.wikileaks.org/leak/obama-1961-birth-announcement-from-honolulu-advertiser.pdf

[ksm1]

The people have no idea what his policies are, other than “Hope and Change”

[Canedawg]

I refer you to my post #274 in this thread for my opinion on that.

[Technical Editor]

The problem with getting evidence is that people do not want to provide it. To get it, we will need a court order. Catch-22 anyone?

[IrishPennant]

Good catch Sibre - Thanks

[Sibre Fan]

SELF-CORRECTION: No - ARE comparing the same thing (Advertiser). But - I don’t see the “issue” in that it looks like the left hand one was just poorly scanned. The more readable version (posted in my prior post) shows it much more clearly.

[pa mom]

It is not a lie. The law in question is Hawaii HRS 338-17.8.

It was passed in 1982 in response to the increase in families adopting children from foreign countries. All states have laws like this for the same reason. In the past, if you adopted a child from China, say, it was very difficult to get an American birth record, which is required for everything from school admission to passports, etc. These bc clearly note where the birth took place, and are called a [insert state here] certificate of foreign birth.

[IrishPennant]

great - thx again

[so_real]

Thanks for the ping and post, BP2.

Freepers, this was not unexpected. The SCOTUS knows that the Wrotnowski case argues the same points. They know the Keyes case has standing and is approaching. They know every day our soon-to-be president-elect disenfranchise more and more of the Obamabots with his actions. The love affair wanes. Time is on the SCOTUS Justices' side (up to the point of swearing in at the inauguration). They know it and can use it.

I know that each of us would have preferred a strong message be sent now, as that is what we believe the strength, courage, and conviction of the Framers would have *demanded*. I wanted that to happen now -- but that is *my* bias. The SCOTUS Justices have their own bias. The case was put before each of them. Now put yourself in their shoes. Without a Supreme Court Justice like John Jay present to light the fire in your belly, what would you do?

I'd table it. Without a word. Without a comment. I'd give the world nothing that might hint at a bias. Then I'd do the research. I'd read ... a lot. I'd have a few quiet conversations. And when the next case, that I know is coming, presents itself I won't be caught off guard. I will know the details. I will have a beautifully written statement prepared. I will be ready.

This is not the set-back the Obamabots would like us to believe it is. It is the SCOTUS doing what they do best -- not going off half-cocked -- knowing the answer even before the question is officially and fully raised. I believe this issue is worthy of going off half-cocked; I believe the Framers would agree with me. The SCOTUS does not. And, like a level-headed chess player, they will play the moves ahead.

Don't let up now, FRiends. This is not an "ignorable" issue and I believe whole-heartedly that the SCOTUS feels the same. Pandora's Box must not be opened. As BP2 indicated, Donofrio has slid back into the formation behind Wrotnowski. Keyes is ready in the wings behind him. Even if the answer given is not the one we want, this question must not be left unanswered.

[arderkrag]

That is an answer. All I can tell you is what I think. is it the real reason? Maybe. And for the last time, I’m not an apologist. I simply think this story has no traction, and is just a conspiracy theory.

[hoosiermama]

That’s a “nutty” toast! But I’ll toast to it anyway!

[Mojave]

That is an answer.

Not even close.

Let's try again:

Why won't Obama release his birth certificate?

[sharkhawk]

Barack’s own siuster who was bron in Indonesia has an issued COLB from HI.

Source? I know someone posted a claim the the One's COLB was forged from hers, but I have no idea where the info that she had a COLB comes from.