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Posted on 12/07/2008 10:25:32 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
From the prospect of an incoming president and vice president with decidedly anti-gun-rights voting records, to a liberal West Coast mayor determined to ban firearms by "executive order" without benefit of city council or legislative review, American gun owners have good reason to doubt the sincerity of liberal Democrats now in control of Congress and soon to control the Oval Office, who claim to support firearm civil rights.
Far too many red flags are being waved for gun owners to take a benign posture just six months after a landmark Supreme Court ruling confirmed what they had known all along: that the Second Amendment affirms and protects a fundamental individual civil right to keep and bear arms.
President-elect Barack Obama is on record supporting gun registration, permanent renewal of the ban on "assault weapons," slapping an exorbitant increase on the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition, and banning handguns outright. His vice president-elect, Delaware's Joe Biden, is a veteran gun-control advocate who authored the original "assault weapons" legislation.
Recently, it was revealed that prospective Obama administration employees were being asked this invasive question: "Do you or any members of your immediate family own a gun? If so, provide complete ownership and registration information. Has the registration ever lapsed? Please also describe how and by whom it is used and whether it has been the cause of any personal injuries or property damage."
Aside from demonstrating a serious ignorance of gun laws--only five states require some level of gun registration, and only in New York City and in New York's Nassau, Suffolk, and Westchester counties is there a renewal requirement--this question suggests that gun owners, or kin of gun owners, will face anti-gun discrimination in their job search. Call it guilt by association, either with firearms or with a relative who owns one.
If this is the kind of "change" we can expect under the Obama administration, gun owners have reason to worry. The more some Democrats "change," the more they stay the same. American citizens flocked to gun shops after the election. Many of those people, ironically, were first-time gun buyers or gun owners who voted for the Chicago Democrat.
Obama reinforced gun-owner apprehension by appointing Rahm Emanuel--point man for the Clinton administration on gun-control issues--as his chief of staff. Eric Holder, his nominee for attorney general, signed an amicus brief in support of the Washington, D.C., gun ban, while arguing that the Second Amendment does not protect an individual right to keep and bear arms, positions soundly rejected by the Supreme Court.
Both houses of Congress are controlled by Obama's Democratic Party, and leadership positions are occupied by devoted anti-gunners. As we detailed in our recent book, "These Dogs Don't Hunt: The Democrats' War on Guns," the party excels in pro-Second Amendment rhetoric, but labors to reduce that right to a highly regulated privilege.
This brings us around to Mayor Greg Nickels of Seattle. He has promised to ban even legally-carried guns from city--make that public--property, by executive order. Nearly 250,000 Washington State residents are licensed to carry concealed handguns, and it is also legal in the Evergreen State to carry handguns openly, without a license.
Nickels was advised by the state attorney general that he lacks the authority under Washington's model pre-emption law to enact a gun ban, but he has vowed to do it anyway.
Gun owners see this as imperial arrogance, and suspect that if Nickels can ignore his own state's preemption statute, then Congress and a Democratic president might just presume to ignore the Constitution.
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Alan Gottlieb is founder of the Second Amendment Foundation. Dave Workman is senior editor of Gun Week.
Yep.
So they call it a war, instead of using Harry Truman’s description for Korea. Or a federal emergency, or or or.
I don’t think it will happen, but as I said above, interesting exercise of the brain.
Again, all hypothetical but a good reasoning exercise
You impute to the US Military a hesitancy to commit warfare at home that you do not seem to share. What makes you think that after you start shooting at them, they won’t shoot back with everything and anything they’ve got?
Exactly.
Lets note a couple of things, then we can debate this if you’d like.
I didn’t say anything about shooting at anyone. Anywhere on this thread.
Second, my time in the service is much of the basis for my comment about the military acting ‘differently’ here, than in Iraq.
Yep, you can take out any single target you want if you are the US military with authorization.
But I wasn’t talking about lil old ME.
I was talking about the difference between a nation in the Middle East with a population of under 30 million total, that had been brutally surpressed for over three decades...in comparision to our nation, with 300 million people, and well over 220 million firearms in their collective possession.
You suggested originally that how we acted in Iraq applies here at home. It simply doesn’t, for a wide variety of reasons.
From the lowest ranked member of our military, to the top of the ranks, there would be CHAOS. Our military isn’t trained to act blindly in relation to our population, unlike what you see in other countries, particularly the Middle East.
I was at the Crossroads of the West Show in Phoenix this weekend as well. I saw a young man with an arm load of 7.62x39mm. It looked like a sheet (1 plastic wrapped layer) from a case. I guess that was all he could afford.
I saw one older gentleman (early 60's) carrying out on a hand truck: 1x case (880 rds) of 8mm Mauser, 1x case of 7.62x51mm Nato (450 rds), 1x case of 45ACP (1000 rds), and something I could not identify. He'd been at the J&G Sales table I recognized the cans. I'd like to see his gun collection.
A fellow I work with required TWO trips with a hand truck! To quote an instructor of mine: "It's a good start." :)
Thanks for the chuckle...
I genuinely hope you are wrong about that. I'd like to think, though I am not willing to bet my life on it, that U.S. National Guardsmen are a step or two ABOVE German WWII era troops.
In WHICH Court, exactly does one go about suing the U.S. Supreme Court?
The moron never did say. But that's Daley, just say stupid stuff that comes into his pea brain.
Some bimbo from the cities legal dept said the next they were looking at all their legal options. (which is none)
> Our military isn’t trained to act blindly in relation to
> our population, unlike what you see in other countries,
> particularly the Middle East.
History has shown over and over again that the US Military is the MOST humanitarian and magnanimous military EVER, by orders of magnitude. Once they have subdued an enemy, they work their hardest to make them friends, even brethren in arms. We’ve seen that even in Iraq.
However...
If they are sent to help collect your firearms, what are you going to do to resist the ones who don’t refuse the order to do so?
What do you expect them to do to any resistance they meet?
‘If they are sent to help collect your firearms, what are you going to do to resist the ones who don’t refuse the order to do so?’
Of course we’d have quite a bit of notice of such a thing, the debates would be furious within the Congress, and state by state as well. I don’t see how you get around the existing laws barring the military from being used in such a manner.
“What do you expect them to do to any resistance they meet?”
I think you’d see a rebellion....within the ranks of the military, long before that ever came to pass.
On the other hand, the government has just spent several years running servicemembers through a loooong field exercise.
Now, the ruling party must consider hundreds of thousands of fit, young men and women, along with NCOs and Officers are now pretty well trained at urban combat. They’re walking the streets and they’re predominantly conservative.
Buddy up with a veteran. (and shake their hand while you’re at it).
very well stated!
“Don’t count on them doing as ordered . National Guard is not regular army . When they see the resistance makes Iraq look like a tea room, they will start to think twice about weather they want to die fighting their brother Americans .”
The Civil War, the attack on the Bonus Marchers, Kent State tend to disagree with your statement. If they are fired upon, they will do likewise I’m afraid.
Non conventional tactics would be called for.
“Five percent of the American population are veterans”
Is that all?
Heck of a note if it’s true. BTW, years ago a majority in Congress were vets. That’s now less than thirty percent IIRC.
Anyway, let’s not panic just yet. And buying arms & ammo represents prudence, not panic. Consider: these post-election purchases have not escaped the attention of the soon to be powers-that-be. They will respond two ways:
“You gun nuts are toast!!”
“Now don’t get excited, people, let’s talk.”
My epiphany came when I first got back from Vietnam and went to buy a replica black powder revolver in Los Angeles. Had to go to the LAPD substation to pick up a card, giving me permission to pick up the pistol at the gunshop and the detective on duty asked me "What are you going to do with the gun - hold up a store?".
I was stunned - here I was as clean-cut as you could get, just back from serving my country in combat and this police officer was questioning my motives, my fitness to own a gun.
I asked to see the Watch Commander and complained about the first officer and I got my pisol but I never forgot the lessons of that day.
Nations that trust their citizens are true democracies.
Nations where only the uniformed class have weapons and the power are police states.
You have to undersatnd how many ex military will join in the revolt . It will be like “ The Patriot” x ten .
No one was fired upon at Kent State. That was outright murder .
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