Posted on 11/20/2008 8:10:27 PM PST by Frantzie
Posted: Nov.20.2008 @ 9:20 pm | Lasted edited: Nov.20.2008 @ 9:31 pm US SUPREME COURT TAKES EXTRAORDINARY EXPEDITED ACTION IN FAST TRACKING NJ CITIZEN SUIT CHALLENGING '08 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.
I am awaiting clarification from the Clerk's office at the United States Supreme Court as to whether my stay application has now been accepted in lieu of a more formal full petition for certiorari (and/or mandamus or prohibition). Such a transformation is a rare and significant emergency procedure. It was used in Bush v. Gore, a case I have relied on in my brief.
We do know the case has certainly been "DISTRIBUTED for Conference", a process usually reserved for full petitions of certiorari. Stays are usually dealt with in a different manner. As to a stay application, a single Justice may; a) deny the stay; b) grant the stay; c) refer the stay to the full Court.
(Excerpt) Read more at blogtext.org ...
Thanks for the correction - guess I should be accurate when stating but I’m just too darn tired. And I absolutely agree that it means absolutely nothing. The American people should know when they are going to slyly throw in amdendments, resolutions, laws, or whatever the heck else they throw in to benefit them. It is absolutely ridiculous.
Would I be incorrect to say that it was the Democrats to actually run with this resolution and it was Obama as well as Hillary that had a part in it? Did they not inform the Republicans or give them input in what they were doing? I read the information on it, but I am absolutely brain dead.
Before scolding the newbie, you might take a look at the case yourself. Barak Obama is not being sued. The respondent is the Secretary of State of New Jersey.
It is my understanding that the 1898 case dealt with Citizenship, not Natural Born Citizenship. Perhaps someone else knows specifically how to verify this, but I am not an attorney and have no idea how to look up the case. There is clearly a difference between Citizenship and Natural Born Citizenship.
A parent’s citizenship is not necessary for a child born on U.S. soil to be a U.S. Citizen, but they are not natural born citizens. It is a common misconception that there are only two types of citizens, but there in reality three types of citizens.
The three types are Naturalized citizens (who bercome citizens at sometime after birth), U.S. Citizens (this can be acheived through a parent’s citizenship or by being born on U.S. soil), and a Natural born citizen. Natural born citizen has never been clearly defined and the only thing it is needed for is to serve as President of the United states. The Founding Fathers clearly made a distinction between the two, when they required in the Constitution that a President must be a Natural Born Citizen.
Since the framers of the Constitution were all citizens of the U.S., the exception they made therefore clearly has to do with the fact that they had been British subjects at birth, since the framers were all born within the confines of what was the United States at the time they wrote the Constitution. The exception they made was that anyone living in the United States at the time the Constitution was written would be qualified to serve as President. Anyone born after that date would need to be a Natural Born Citizen to serve as president of the United States.
The problem with this is that there is only an implied definition in the Constitution based on the qualifications for President. The implication therein is clearly that Natural born citizenship is something more than regular citizenship. Even the U.S. State Department Manual states that the Constitution is the only place where the term Natural Born is used that carries legal weight since it is the supreme law of the land.
I hope this helps to clarify why Donofrio’s case has merit and needs to be settled by the Supreme Court.
“As much as I want to know Obama is (or isn’t) able to serve the office, allowing this suit to move forward sets a rather dangerous precedent.”
____________________________________________
And I believe NOT moving this suit forward sets a “rather dangerous precedent.”
If we do not follow the law, we have chaos.
Isn’t that dangerous?
So how is the case being fasttracked beyond the Dec. 5 conference date? I’m not getting that from Leo’s website. Or am I just not understanding it correctly?
Thank you for posting the information on United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)! Your post was very informative!
I repeat I'm not a lawyer and am operating admittedly with poor light. Heck I've failed to integrate Amend XX over XII (it was very wee hour), so I'm not even a Constitution buff. Tribe was a prominent BO prof at HU, BTW. And as William Buckley said, he'd subject himself to rule of 1st 400 people in the Boston phone book over Harvard grads. I lived in Boston for more than a couple decades - Cambridge during some student years. Buckley wasn't so far off, even for a Yalie.
This is what I understand to be Donofrio’s thrust, yes.
I want to take opportunity to correct here (again as I just have w/ post 427) that I was weary and did not go to Amend XX Sec 3 that updates and clarifies succession to VP elect in month Jan over Amend XII’s ambiguous ref to VP (existing or newly elected-that you see caught me) in early month March in case of unqualified Presidential candidate being forwarded (or not) by Electoral College, with Congress unable to forward winner under Presidential title.
“The legal definition of domicile is where a person has his or her fixed dwelling without present intent of removal. At the time, Obama and his wife were living in Honolulu. They had no set for which they were intending to leave Hawaii. It could have been 10 months or 10 years. Legally their primary residence was there permanent, and only, domicile.”
There is no record of them every being married.
There is no record of them living together.
Yes, what you're speaking of is THIS:
Foreign Affairs Manual, Vol. 7 -- ACQUISITION AND RETENTION OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP AND NATIONALITY
Here on page 6, near the bottom, 1116.1-4 "Not Included in the Meaning of 'In the United States' "
c. Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.
KEEP IN MIND, the The Foreign Affairs Manual is published by the US Department of State. It contains the functional statements, organizational responsibilities, and authorities of each of the major components of the U.S. Department of State. As such, it is the BIBLE when it comes to who gets to come to the US, who doesn't, who's an alien, who's naturalized, etc.
The Panama Canal Zone was administered by the U.S. under a perpetual lease. It was not U.S. soil.
One may argue that the 1st Congress, in which a number of Framers sat, provided in the Naturalization Act of 1790 in which "the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond the sea, . . . shall be considered as natural born citizens. . . ." This strongly suggests that the framers of the Constitution understood this phrase to refer to citizenship acquired at birth (whether or not that birth had taken place on U.S. soil).
However, the phrase "natural born Citizen" isn't defined anywhere in the Constitution and its interpretation has never been squarely the subject of a U.S. Supreme Court ruling.
Look, I'm a vet, and I have the UTMOST admiration for McCain. I cried on his video biography during the official RNC nomination on TV -- 7 years of his life in a POW camp. WOW -- talk about sacrifice!
But as I understand it, for different reasons than Obama, McCain may NOT be qualified to hold the office of President.
I think it will be up to the Supreme Court to decide this winter. As to whether the Electoral College vote is put on hold, and we eventually end up with Keyes/Biden as the winners, well, it's anyone's guess...
Are you freakin' kidding me? This is about the Rule of Law, mister!
How about letting the Fourth Amendment be waived to allow Unreasonable Search and Seizure during a time of "crisis." What if your neighbor looks suspicious -- the FBI needs to go in without a warrant to check them out, right?
Let's consider waiving the Eighth Amendment -- torture of US citizens might be warranted if Congress deems it "necessary." Can't have secrets being held back by domestic threats...
And we can disregard just a couple parts of the First Amendment, right? Which Freedoms are you willing to suspend until the next election: Religion, Speech, or Right to Assembly?
I'm not a fan of the "slippery slope" argument. But you know what, it DOES apply in this case.
The Constitution is not a restaurant buffet that we get to pick and choose portions we want to consume at that moment -- it's an all or nothing deal.
Want to break down the Rule of Law? Let's not pay taxes. Let's steal without impunity. Let's kill who we deem deserves to die. Obviously I'm being factitious, but let the Rule of Law break down, and our Constitution, and entire legal system, is worthless.
We need to confirm and enforce the Constitutional requirements for ALL Presidential candidates.
LOL!
That’s a great graphic!
Keep it handy. ;o)
Leo found out that a Judge in lower court in NJ tried to keep his case from going to the SC of NJ and also the SC of US. He filed a suit against a lower NJ court Judge today. The actions of this lower court Judge was to alter Leo’s case motion in such a way that when the US SC called for lower court records, it would appear that Leo did not file things properly in NJ to begin with. That would cause the USSC to deny his case. But because it is already before the USSC Leo says the Conference will go on as far as he knows. He filed his lawsuit against the lower court Judge in NJ today to make sure attention is brought to this Judge’s actions. Leo will be going public now!!!!! He will now be talking to any news agency to bring attention to what happened! Listen NOW on Lan’s show!
WOW!
Thank you for that info!
That judge needs to be impeached, or whatever they do to remove judges.
I’m glad Leo is going public with this.
He’s on the Lan Lamphere show now and furious.
http://www.lanlamphere.com/audio/livejava.php
I TAKE THAT BACK ... LAN’S SHOW JUST STOPPED WORKING FOR ME.
Well, phooey!
I couldn’t get it.
Thank you for the heads up, though
PEOPLE HAVE TO HEAR WHAT DONOFRIO IS GOING THROUGH!!! LISTEN TO THE http://www.lanlamphere.com/ AUDIOCAST OF -I AM NOT EXACTLY SURE BUT ITS LISTED AS WEDNESDAY NOV 19- WHAT HIS MAN HAS BEEN SUBJECTED TO BEYOND DANNY BICKLE OF THE USSC CLERK'S OFFICE. HIS PROBLEMS WITH THE NJ STATE APPELATE FILING SUBMISSION & RECORD ARE INCREDIBLE- IN ORDER TO ASSURE PASSAGE OF PROPER CASE APPEAL TITLE AND MATTER TO USSC!! HE WAS SOMEWHAT SAVED BY FEMALE NJSC JUDGE NOTATIONS, SUCH CASE WAS PASSABLE TO USSC.
EVEN AS THE BROADCAST IS MADE, THERE WAS A CYBERATTACK ON THE INTERNET RADIO STATION ITSELF SUCH SERVER CAPACITY WAS DROPPED FROM 30,000 TO 9,000.
I still can't get to Donofrio site www.blogtext.org/naturalborncitizen/ , nor ANY blogtext.org site. THIS IS A VERY LONG AND INFORMATIVE INTERVIEW - DO DO DO LISTEN! THE PLAINSRADIO INTERVIEWS ESP MONDAY 17TH ARE MORE INFORMATIVE ON THE REAL FACTS OF THE CASE...BUT LL INTERVIEW SUBJECTS ARE VERY GOOD FOR BACKGROUND / PROCESS AND WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE DOING TO THIS GUY. LL says a fellow has backed-up the site and will make available for new server / address to be set up (I presume now) by LL. Another fellow communicates that "he knows for a fact" that the FBI is protecting him. LD states he has had weird things happen with his cellphones and lost a CPU with a virus.
Just realized the java player I’m listening to right now is the show I listened to previously this eve that came up on a winamp player. This is the show where Donofrio really shows what depraved actions of the NJ Appellate judge and his clerk did to attempt to foil proper passage to USSC:
BREAKING - LEO DONOFRIO APPEARING TONIGHT ON OVERNIGHT AM - NOV 21, 2008 AT 11:00 PM EST/10:00 PM CST
This on the Patriot Brigade Radio Network http://www.lanlamphere.com/audio/livejava.php
on a java player –start-stop in place enabled
page:
Donofrio makes public appeal at end for lawyer or historian familiar with USSC submissions such he can pass better preparation that NJ bird scuttled. LD again emphasizes this is a very rare action and he can’t pick up advice from normal sources (LIKE THE USSC clerk’s office) .
He is filing a form of heavy complaint against NJ judge on chicanery. LD IS HARDLY SURE AT ALL PROPER HISTORY CAN BE PASSED TO USSC IF / WHEN THE FULL COURT REQUESTS AND THIS COULD KILL THE CASE – JUST AS DESIGNED BY THE NJ APPELLATE DIVISION MONSTER. Judicial misconduct and obstruction of justice charges are planned by LD. The actions alone meant for delay such great action could not transpire before election day.
That’s the important part. This really shows that Leo Donofrio is almost too nice a guy to be a successful (he isn’t he’s left the field pretty much for poker-playing!) lawyer in the US today. He obviously had very nice parents. He’s just amazing in his personal civility and it almost sounds as if he’s reading from notes when I don’t think he is much at all! One’s hear the pages flipping in his hands! He has kept his humor and wits about him. As he left it Nov 19 on last plainsradio show he would do one more interview w/ Lamphere and go basically dark and prep until Dec 5 case. He’s been convinced by the NJ blockage Friday AM and at a very little Lamphere prompting and assistance, he’s going to try to stay very public.
Now I want to complain. I could not transcribe this in even piecemeal fashion until it came up on the java player. No out-takes possible on the earlier live winamp? ! There is no scroll button on my winamp via LL. Is there a better player workable with scrollable feature for this particular site ?
Click here click there.. and the archived 19th show I was in error referring to comes up on the winamp- but get this, you hit the stop button and it returns to the beginning, not as the one I listened to on winamp player earlier this eve during the electronic attack(s) which would allow a re-start a few seconds back into the show after this odd abort message sits under the player. Heck maybe I was listening live and didn’t know it - but I’m SURE LD said he’d just done his last interview w/ plainsradio- which was 19th- well again its late. And I stopped drinking a long while ago. Did he do another plainsradio show Friday that they haven’t posted? Anyways- the plainsradio presentation does not have the scroll button apprearing but one can hit the stop start and be where they were. This bloody LL show doesn’t work so. I don’t have time to go through writing a review worthy of cnet.
IF ANYONE KNOWS LL PLEASE TELL HIM TO GIVE TIME/DATE ANNOUNCEMENTS – HE GOES THRU THIS WHOLE PROGRAM WITHOUT SAYING WHAT DAY IT IS….these things can get maddening- subject to mislisting and all. Try to get him to have winamp presentation with the button to enable scrolling back and forth thru show as w/ radioamerica (Liddy).. I have no idea why presentations can’t all be like this.
This station had a link FROM Andy Martin wherein Martin had it there was an interview with him and it links up an interview with Berg by Lamphere- who is very cynical about Berg as well!! I did the thing twice!!! Last week. Too bad about Martin BTW. If you followed me a few days ago over on other blog I still say he can be (well could have) been an idiot savant to get this done. Not much of an internet powerhouse with this poor link to the guy he reviles (Berg) so.
LL has this old ex-soviet bloc guy Paul .on who i think spent way too much time in NYC..and wants to take a swipe at Hannity because he won’t crit Repubs when Sean does so plenty. No I’m not a big SH booster either but this is not a valid crit of him. This old bird sounds like a typical NY Russian bordering on blather. He is having an nice exit talking about how socialism is surrounded by feminine qualities (“emotionalism” etc). Oh he’s incurred wrath of some females listening! There are very few Russians in US who can even come close to speaking like Alexander Solzhenitsyn, all this roundly-phrased stuff I could almost say I went through by just reading here in USA.
Sorry for aside- but DO LISTEN TO THE NOV 21 PRESENTATION.OF DONOFRIO. YOW!
Check this out. The founders concept of “Natural Born” clearly eliminates Obama Hussein and validates McCain, I found this at a college law site :
The term “natural born” citizen has a long history in British common law.(38) In fact, a law passed in 1677 law says that “natural born” citizens include people born overseas to British citizens. This usage was undoubtedly known to John Jay, who had children born overseas while he was serving as a diplomat.(39) It also appears to have been employed by the members of the first Congress, who included many of the people who had participated in the Constitutional Convention. To be specific, The Naturalization Act of 1790, which was passed by this Congress, declared “And the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens; Provided, that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident of the United States.”(40)
This history suggests that the Founding Fathers used the term “natural born” as an expansive definition of citizenship, that is, as a way to make certain that people born overseas to American citizens would have the full rights of other American citizens.(41)
A particularly compelling version of this interpretation, with language that applies, inadvertently, no doubt, to foreign-born adoptees, can be found in an article written almost 100 years ago by Alexander Porter Morse.(42) He writes that by drawing on the term so well known from English law, the Founders were recognizing “the law of hereditary, rather than territorial allegiance.”(43) In other words, they were drawing on the English legal tradition, which protected allegiance to the king by conferring citizenship on all children “whose fathers were natural-born subjects,” regardless of where the children were born.(44) Thus, according to Morse, “the framers thought it wise, in view of the probable influx of European immigration, to provide that the President should at least be the child of citizens owing allegiance to the United States at the time of his birth.”(45) He goes on to say that the presidential eligibility clause “was scarcely intended to bar the children of American parentage, whether born at sea or in foreign territory.... A natural-born citizen has been defined as one whose citizenship is established by the jurisdiction which the United States already has over the parents of the child, not what is thereafter acquired by choice of residence in this country.”(46
I've lived in Kansas for many years and I wasn't aware we had a State Department.
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