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ENOUGH WITH THE WOE IS ME THREADS
self | 11/13/08 | LS

Posted on 11/13/2008 4:02:22 AM PST by LS

If I see one more "we are doomed" or "we'll never again win an election" thread I'm gonna puke!

ANY reader of American history knows that going back to the 1600s, EVERY generation has faced (yes) a similar challenge, every generation has thought it faced the "end of the colony/state/country.

*John Adams and the Federalists were certain that Thomas Jefferson would destroy the country he helped build, and forge an alliance with that "terrorist" country France.

*Both Thomas Jefferson and Martin Van Buren said that the Missouri Compromise (that would be 1820, for those of you from Rio Linda) was "the death knell of the Union."

*All "men of standing" were certain that Andrew Jackson would destroy the nation---and thought he proved it when he allowed mobs into the White House to guzzle the wine stock while he high-tailed it out back to a nearby bar. Even Davy Crockett---hardly an effete snob---thought Jackson was going to destroy the country.

*EVERY major Republican except Lincoln thought they had permanently destroyed the Democrat Party by 1864. In fact, they had put into place such astonishing obstacles to the Dems EVER getting power that they were stunned when the Dems not only won congressional seats, but had to be swindled out of an election in 1876!

*The only way a Democrat even won the White House for 100 years was to either a) pretend to be a Republican (Cleveland---DINO); or to get the Republicans to fracture into two parties (Wilson in 1912).

*FDR put every obstacle to Republican elections in place from 1932-1944, and STILL couldn't prevent a Republican from being elected president in 1952, and it took a terrible TV debate and some fraud to keep Nixon out in 1960. It wouldn't have taken much, with a President Nixon in 1960, for Republicans to have held power throughout the 1970s.

Lenin took power in Russia with a mere 20,000 committed communists---smaller than my little Ohio township---in a nation of 160 MILLION. Commitment, determination, and above all, having an idea to fight for is the key to victory.

I'm going to end with a Bible story: Gideon was leading the Israelites against an enemy. He had an army of 30,000 and God said, "Too many! Your soldiers aren't all committed. Some are faint hearted, some are grumblers." God gave Gideon a test to eliminate 27,000 men from the ranks. With just 3,000, Gideon got ready to fight and God said, "Too many. There are still too many complainers, nay-sayers, men weak of faith." He gave Gideon another test, leaving Gideon with only 300. Then God said, "You are ready now to go and WIN." And he did.

If you are all through with your little hissy fits and "poor me/we'll never win another election" pity parties, I'm ready to join 299 of you to GO WIN.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 111th; bho2008; doomed; economy; elections; ilikecheese; obama; vanitypostsyndrome; wearedoomed
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To: LS

“Er, make that “too religious.””


No possible, “too religious”.

Unless you count the new Buddha guy who fasted for four years.

Now that’s “too religious”.


61 posted on 11/13/2008 5:38:36 AM PST by UCANSEE2 (The Last Boy Scout)
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To: UCANSEE2
Do you even bother to read comments before making reply?


62 posted on 11/13/2008 5:39:59 AM PST by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: LS

See tagline.

Nuff said?


63 posted on 11/13/2008 5:47:08 AM PST by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: nathanbedford
Well, the most I ever said McCain MIGHT win by was 270-280 EV. I never thought he could exceed Bush's 2004 numbers---but it was close, across the board. Not nearly as close as 2004 or 2000, but still close.

Absolutely right that the Whigs and Progressives no longer exist. Nor do the Federalists. So, yes, parties can and do disappear, and it would do everyone well to remember that just seven years ago, the Dems were on the threshhold of completely collapsing: they held no major governorships, had only recently reclaimed senate seats in NY and MI and CA; were in such disarray that even the Clintons accepted Howard Dean as their chairman (good move); faced a popular president who soon had majorities in both houses.

It is far too easy, from 2008, to say, "well, the GOP was bound to screw it up." Quite the contrary, a few better moves from 2003 to 2006, and we would likely be talking about neither Obama NOR McCain.

But if "ifs and buts were candies and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas" as Dandy Don Meredith used to say.

The ONLY time political parties in this country have disappeared or faded out is when they failed to come to grips with the dominant political issue of the age. In 1815, when the Federalists disappeared, they not only opposed what was seen as a war for our survival (sound familiar?) but were completely removed from the democratic revolution that was ending the caucus system, property rights to vote, and establishing national conventions. Needless to say, it also put in place the "spoils system," which has done long term harm, but certainly did not end the Republic.

The Whigs, as one historian said, were "Stillborn." They had no chance because a) they remained the party of "great men" as opposed to democratic populism, and b) they REFUSED TO CONFRONT SLAVERY.

Now, as I see it, the issue before is it to correctly identify and address the primary issue of the day. It may not be the more obvious issue (the economy) or it might be. It may be illegals, though I don't think so: I think the primary issue of our time is the intrusion of the federal government into the lives of everyone (and illegals are a byproduct of that welfare state). Just as abolition of slavery was embraced by less than 30% of the American people in the 1850s---yet the new Republican Party perceived it was THE issue---so too it may be that the majority of people do not YET realize that this government intrusion is their most vile enemy.

But I sense they are getting there. Despite the bailouts and nanny police, we may be reaching that "teachable moment" with internet website blocks in Australia, fat police everywhere, businesses failing from government interference, where a Ronald Reagan can rise up and again say, "Government is not the solution, government is the problem."

The key for us as a party and movement is to weed out the unbelievers and nay-sayers and whiners; get to our 300; and fight this action until the "reserves" of the American people come to their senses. I have great faith that they will because they always have.

64 posted on 11/13/2008 5:47:44 AM PST by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: Paladin2

Don’t read em. It’s a free market.


65 posted on 11/13/2008 5:48:15 AM PST by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: Rockingham

Now we only need 298 more! Welcome aboard.


66 posted on 11/13/2008 5:48:51 AM PST by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: RenegadeNC

BTTT


67 posted on 11/13/2008 5:58:26 AM PST by BARLF
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To: LS
We have had this discussion before. The demographics of this country are changing rapidly, which has and will affect the political calculus in this country. As a result, more red states will turn purple and then blue and the blue states will become bluer.

Bureau of the Census: An Older and More Diverse Nation by Midcentury

"Minorities, now roughly one-third of the U.S. population, are expected to become the majority in 2042, with the nation projected to be 54 percent minority in 2050. By 2023, minorities will comprise more than half of all children.

In 2030, when all of the baby boomers will be 65 and older, nearly one in five U.S. residents is expected to be 65 and older. This age group is projected to increase to 88.5 million in 2050, more than doubling the number in 2008 (38.7 million).

Similarly, the 85 and older population is expected to more than triple, from 5.4 million to 19 million between 2008 and 2050.

By 2050, the minority population — everyone except for non-Hispanic, single-race whites — is projected to be 235.7 million out of a total U.S. population of 439 million. The nation is projected to reach the 400 million population milestone in 2039.

The non-Hispanic, single-race white population is projected to be only slightly larger in 2050 (203.3 million) than in 2008 (199.8 million). In fact, this group is projected to lose population in the 2030s and 2040s and comprise 46 percent of the total population in 2050, down from 66 percent in 2008.

Meanwhile, the Hispanic population is projected to nearly triple, from 46.7 million to 132.8 million during the 2008-2050 period. Its share of the nation’s total population is projected to double, from 15 percent to 30 percent. Thus, nearly one in three U.S. residents would be Hispanic.

The black population is projected to increase from 41.1 million, or 14 percent of the population in 2008, to 65.7 million, or 15 percent in 2050. The Asian population is projected to climb from 15.5 million to 40.6 million. Its share of the nation’s population is expected to rise from 5.1 percent to 9.2 percent.

In 2050, the nation’s population of children is expected to be 62 percent minority, up from 44 percent today. Thirty-nine percent are projected to be Hispanic (up from 22 percent in 2008), and 38 percent are projected to be single-race, non-Hispanic white (down from 56 percent in 2008).

The working-age population is projected to become more than 50 percent minority in 2039 and be 55 percent minority in 2050 (up from 34 percent in 2008). Also in 2050, it is projected to be more than 30 percent Hispanic (up from 15 percent in 2008), 15 percent black (up from 13 percent in 2008) and 9.6 percent Asian (up from 5.3 percent in 2008)."

Minorities generally vote Dem. What makes this even more concerning beyond partisan political considerations is that Hispanics and blacks have the highest out of wedlock birth rates, 50% and 68% respectively, and the highest school drop out rates approaching 50%. We are creating a permanent underclass that will become more dependent upon govermment and drain resources from the economy.

And then there is the impact of immigration, which accounts for two-thirds of our annual population growth of about .9% annually, the highest among any developed country. 87% of the 1.2 million LEGAL immigigrants who enter this country annually are minorities. And almost all of the 500,000 to 1 million who enter illegally each year are minorities.

Immigrants account for one in eight U.S. residents, the highest level in 80 years. In 1970 it was one in 21; in 1980 it was one in 16; and in 1990 it was one in 13. In a decdade it will be one in 7, the highest in our history, and by 2050, it will be one in 5. These projections assume there will be no/no amnesty.

Immigrants generally vote Dem. As of 2007, the largest increases in immigrants were in California, Florida, Texas, New Jersey, Illinois, Arizona, Virginia, Maryland, Washington, Georgia, North Carolina, and Pennsylvania. Look for the red states in this group to gradually turn purple.

The bottomline is that the tradtional Rep political power base is non-Hispanic whites, especially white males. That base is declining as a percentage of the population from 89% in 1970 to 66% today to 50% in 2042. In the face of these rapidly changing demographics, the Reps must come up with a poltitical strategy to remain viable.

Personally, I believe we need to address the immigration issue with a view towards reducing the numbers from around 1.2 million to 300,000 annually and changing the system to a merit based one. And we must target blue collar Dems, mostly whites but certainly some blacks and hispanics who have been most affected by this tidal wave of largely unskilled immigrant labor.

68 posted on 11/13/2008 6:06:11 AM PST by kabar
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To: beachn4fun

incentives matter and if people will be paid for abortions there will be more abortions. Especially if the economy tanks.


69 posted on 11/13/2008 6:06:33 AM PST by ari-freedom (So this is how Liberty dies... with thunderous applause)
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To: LS
I do not Fault anyone for predicting the election and watching the prediction come up on the wrong end of the count. But I do say that cheerleading because one is afraid that the mere expression of a negative view will so demoralize conservatives that we will fail to go to the polls is insulting and presumptuous. I know you did not do that.

All that is now behind us, nearly the worst has happened. The first step is to admit it. There is no reason to wallow in denial now the election is over, no voting bloc will be demoralized. There is virtually no downside risk in embracing the reality of the failure and there is a grave risk in sticking our heads in the sand or in believing the same mindless boosterism that prevented us from taking decisive action before 2006, much less before 2008.

Since I never pass up an opportunity to quote myself, I am going to use the occasion to repeat a post:

As we conservatives drag the remnants of our movement into the wilderness with no idea how we will emerge or whether we will ever emerge as an electoral force in America which is recognizable by my generation, we must inevitably engage ourselves in the most soul- searing inquiry of what went wrong. This will be an agony but equally it will be effective only to the degree that it hurts. It will not succeed without bloodshed. There must be finger-pointing and bloodletting. We must carve to the bone. The process must be Darwinian. Those whose ideas are false must be bayoneted on the trial.

The object is to find our soul - nothing less. In a come to Jesus sense we must get absolutely clear what it means to be a conservative. Only at this point do we look to the tent flaps and open them. Those who cannot subscribe to the hard-won consensus, to a confession of faith as to what is a conservative, should walk out through that flap. Those who are attracted from the outside to the core message of conservatism should be encouraged to walk through the flap and enlarge the tent. What the left wants us to do is to expand the census in the tent prematurely and thus turn a movement into a menagerie. The Soul-searching must be conducted by conservatives without the earnest ministrations from liberals like those of Politico. This article, of course, has nothing whatever to do with explaining why Republicans lost 2008 election across the board, it has everything to do with first efforts by the left to sabotage the rebuilding process on the right which must be done exclusively by the right.

We have not lost the 2008 election because we were excessively partisan while Obama was enlightened and transcendental. We actually lost the election because George Bush and Karl Rove betrayed the soul of conservatism. A party without its soul is like an army which does not believe in itself, it cannot win the next contest. A party which had abandoned its principles and so lost the last two elections and frittered away both its power as the ruling coalition and its status as the majority philosophy of the nation, cannot expect to swell its ranks by recruiting to a lost cause. The party must first know what the cause is and only then can it recruit. To again borrow the military analogy, a party like an army disintegrates without a mission. Armies are assigned missions but a political party finds its mission only through soul-searching.

As this process occurs we will be told by the left that only a big tent party can win and that to become a big tent one must move to co-opt the center. That is not how it works. That is the reverse of the way it works. The center is not peopled by voters with fixed notions about the exercise of power who wait for one of the great political parties to surrender their values and embrace the tempered and resolute opinions of the middle. That happens with splinter parties but not with the mushy middle. When an unaffiliated voter bestirs himself to enter the polling booth he is confronted with one of two options: right or left. He does not consider who has moved the farthest geographically from right to the left or left to right any more than he commits because of his own long held political beliefs. He votes for the fella who best tickles his fancy at the moment. Put more charitably, he votes for the candidate who persuades that he is the best, and has the best to offer.

If we as conservatives do not believe that we have the best to offer we should get out of the business. A candidate, like a party, who is centered on his philosophy has integrity and is persuasive. And that philosophy must first have a vertical spiritual component which finds expression and out working in a horizontal governing philosophy.

Because of his race, Obama was asked only to demonstrate that he could walk and talk like a president. Obama has won the middle, not because he pandered to them, which he did, but because he had the wind at his back.

As John McCain reverts from titular head of the Republican Party to United States Senator, it falls to the rest of us to contrive a governing philosophy which he, unfortunately, did not own and therefore could not bequeath to us. We had such a legacy from Ronald Reagan but we squandered it. We must construct our own. We must do it in the wilderness. We must do it unaided by intermeddling liberals. Their's is the serpent's way, the easy way, a pander to the superficially popular, the accommodation to the middle. The bed of birth has always been a bed of pain. The pain must be embraced if we are to receive a new life.


70 posted on 11/13/2008 6:18:13 AM PST by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: LS

Well then...from one pollyanna to another...keep fighting the good fight!!! I guess they’ll just have to consider me “too relibious” also!! :)


71 posted on 11/13/2008 6:18:44 AM PST by RenegadeNC
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To: Future Snake Eater

Constantly ranting “Woe is us!” ain’t gonna solve a damned thing.
_____________________________
Ditto. See I HATE the fact that Obama is going to be president come January and I HATE what very well may occur with a Dem senate and congress. HOWEVER, this is a time for me to become more proactive. Write my senators and congressmen (which I have done for years) to keep them aware of what the PEOPLE want. Obama may have control of a section of this country but he CAN NOT control my spirit or my desire and the will to fight back. Believe me I have weighed all alternatives . . . worse scenario we become a socialist state in the next 4 years and the majority of the country love that type of existence. I do not have to like it and I will do all in my power to make a difference where I am. If we all do that, we WILL MAKE A DIFFERNCE in 2012.

Are we headed all too soon time when we will be tossed in the slammer for voicing an opinion against Obama and socialism . . . for expressing faith in God? Maybe . . . am I willing to keep moving forward and take that chance? All I know is that strength is growing inside me and my determination to speak out and DO SOMETHING increased on Nov 4. Can we ban together and make a difference? Only if we get off our tush and make a difference in our communities.


72 posted on 11/13/2008 6:23:29 AM PST by RepubRep (God Bless America and may He guard our borders until we WAKE UP and do it ourselves!!)
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To: LS

Me too!! If Republicans want to win, the formula is simple. CONSERVATISM!!! IF Bush had been a real conservative, and had McCain been a real conservative, WE’D be looking at the WH and super majorities in the congress now.


73 posted on 11/13/2008 6:31:19 AM PST by weezel
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To: LS
FDR put every obstacle to Republican elections in place from 1932-1944, and STILL couldn't prevent a Republican from being elected president in 1952
Uh, that's a 20 year walk in the wilderness for republicans that FDR "didn't prevent".

maybe you shudda rethunk that part ;-)

74 posted on 11/13/2008 6:44:32 AM PST by Condor51 (Obama believes in Karl Marx. I believe in Sun Tzu.)
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To: Condor51

Republicans made important gains in the house at various times during the 1930s. It’s not like they always lost. And, as I show in the rest of the thread, 20 years is nothing in American politics. The “free silver” movement lasted longer than that-—and it’s irrelevant today.


75 posted on 11/13/2008 8:24:04 AM PST by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: Sherman Logan

“There was just no cohesive force to oppose the Bolshies. They also demonstrated amazing spirit and dedication.”

Could not the same parallels be drawn with the American Left _today_, vs. the disorganization of the Right?

- John


76 posted on 11/13/2008 8:29:42 AM PST by Fishrrman
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To: LS

Here here!


77 posted on 11/13/2008 8:31:42 AM PST by jmstein7 (A Judge not bound by the original meaning of the Constitution interprets nothing but his own mind.)
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To: LS

Im more doomed than usual


78 posted on 11/13/2008 8:33:59 AM PST by woofie
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To: LS
You are absolutely correct. The Republican party will rise again.

The question is, where will conservatives be?

79 posted on 11/13/2008 8:47:37 AM PST by CharacterCounts (Wanted: Snappy, erudite tag line.)
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To: LS

I’m listening to CSPAN’s broadcast of the National Republican Governors Association. They “sound” as if they’re looking for “new” direction.


80 posted on 11/13/2008 8:48:12 AM PST by HighlyOpinionated (Psalm 66:7b "He watches every movement of the nations. Rebels will not be able to oppose Him.")
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