Posted on 11/11/2008 9:15:45 PM PST by GATOR NAVY
WASHINGTON — A coalition of atheists and agnostics wants the new White House to protect young military members from what they see as rampant religious discrimination in the services.
The Secular Coalition for America held a news conference Monday urging new rules against proselytizing and more training for chaplains on how to handle nonreligious troops.
"When they say ‘there are no atheists in foxholes’ it’s slanderous," said Wayne Adkins, a former Army first lieutenant who served in Iraq in 2004 and 2005. "To deny their existence is to deny that they serve."
The coalition also wants President-elect Obama to develop a new directive for all chaplains and commanders that eliminates public prayers from any mandatory-attendance events for troops and ensures the Defense Department will not endorse any single religion, or even the idea of religion over nonreligion.
Jason Torpy, a retired soldier and president of the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers, said his group isn’t opposed to Christianity or any other organized religion.
"We just recognize that religion and religious people get a lot of support from the military," he said. "What about the rest of us?"
Torpy said his group has fielded hundreds of complaints from servicemembers who believe they’ve been harassed, passed over for promotion or forced into retirement for not following the religious preferences of their commanding officers.
Adkins said equal opportunity office investigators in the service ignored his complaints about harassment and mistreatment because he was an atheist, which in part led to his decision to leave the service.
Army Maj. Laurel Williams, currently stationed in Florida, said she has filed complaints about military conventions and programs that are little more than Christian rallies, but received little or no response.
About one-fifth of current servicemembers identify themselves as having no religious preference, according to Defense Department statistics.
Only a small percentage of troops identify themselves as atheists or agnostics, but Torpy said that’s because they fear retribution. Without new rules, he said, there isn’t any guarantee they can avoid that kind of treatment.
"We’re as dedicated to the military as our Christian counterparts," he said. "We just want to serve our country, too."
I think the pollster is not separating the idea “God doesn’t exist” from those who accept that philosophy.
Religious people will, of course, reject that as an abominable notion. At the same time, most Christians I’ve ever met absolutely loved talking to atheists. Made them think they’d done their daily duty.
They didn’t dislike the people at all. (With the exception of Richard Dawkins who practices at being insulting.)
In the case of radical cultists, they really believe those to be dangerous people.
Same here, it was amazing how holy people became when given those options.
http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigotryprejudice/a/AtheistSurveys.htm
Not sure if this is the same one I read, but it shows the same trend.
And so, their solution is to endorse nonreligion over religion?
It sounds to me like that poll really found out more about how Americans define the word “moral” than it found out about atheists.
Ask them: “Would you feel safer spending the night with an American atheist or spending the night with a radical, fundamentalist Muslim?” and I’ll bet they choose the American atheist hands down. :>)
It seems the near universal opinion on this conservative forum is that this is ‘no big deal’. But it is a big deal. The nontheists are just asking for support so they can serve.
Assertions are that there really is no discrimination going on. The demeaning and derogatory opinions against atheists expressed here are representative of those in the military. How successful can an atheist expect to be with that kind of sentiment from all sides, especially the chain of command?
Several have suggested that these people aren’t really atheists or wouldn’t be in a foxhole. That may be a comfortable myth, but the truth is that they have been in foxholes. The MAAF site has a long list of atheists in foxholes - http://www.maaf.info/expaif.html
Then there is the assertion that the poor poor evangelicals that hold a majority position at every level of command are the real persecuted majority. The only problem lies with those who want to abuse their power to blast prayers over loudspeakers, or to give Christian prayers to a captive audience, or to fund multi-million dollar global evangelism programs under the guise of ‘family support’ like Strong Bonds. It is part of our Oath to the Constitution and the first clause of the first amendment to put the mission first. There is still an opportunity for personal religion and the second clause of the first amendment as long as it’s not done officially.
Another assertion is that atheism isn’t a religion and doesn’t deserve protection. That’s really the important problem to solve. The deeply-held beliefs of nontheists are equivalent personally and legally to traditional religious beliefs, and it only helps to build the team by reaching out to the nontheists to provide morale, family, equal opportunity, and counseling support.
People here seem to want to shout down the minority. Atheists just want to serve without feeling like second-class citizens. It’s no different than Women, African-Americans, or Jews before us.
Option A: religion over nonreligion
Option B: nonreligion over religion
Option C: equal treatment of both
Option D: neutrality with respect to both
The preference is for the Constitutional treatment: A combination of D and C with D taking precedence by default and C being accommodated when neutrality is infeasible. And of course private expressions in private activities remain unrestricted.
“...President-elect Obama...”
I still can’t get used to that.
More to the point,I will NEVER get used to “Commander-In-Chief” Barack 0bama.
NEVER.
NEVER.
NEVER.
hmmm- I thought these were supposed to be big tough military people? I guess I was mistaken in believing that they are- Seems they are so sissified that they can’t bear to have their ‘feelings’ hurt? Grow a spine you atheist personel- Words won’t kill you- don’t like what ya heaR? All I got to say is cry me a stinkin river eh?
If your preference for neutrality is implemented, how would that change what is being done today?
Excellent post.
The point is that, whether for good reasons or not, soldiers have religious needs when their lives are on the line.
So far as pastoral care is concerned, that is limited to one’s flock...even in the military. However, the skills used in pastoral care are the same skills as those used in many counseling settings.
In the military such counseling by chaplains IS available to all on an equal basis.
Local commanders are in charge of everything on their installations, to include medical and chaplain care.
First you will have to make up your mind as to whether atheism is a religion, as you claim; or a race, or gender as you also claim .
Or is it just a choice people make, for which you think all others should behave so that those who freely made the choice should never, ever have their feelings hurt, as you also claim.
One is a belief, one is a race, the third is childishness masquerading as a legal right.
Or is it just whatever is most convenient to your agenda at the time ?
That is, in terms of war, a just war discussion.
In terms of maintaining civil peace, it is a justifiable force discussion.
I’ve never found any argument that truly was as rational as the individual, community, and international self-defense arguments.
It is very rare that both sides will agree that a war is just. The only example I can think of is when Germany acknowledged very shortly after the end of WWII that the Allies were justified in stopping the Nazis.
Whether the sides agree or not, rational people can look at the facts and discuss them in light of the theory.
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