Preparing for the "Big What if": Buying a gun

WaPo & Free Republic ^ | Sept 15, 2008 | Joe Brower

[Kevmo]

The Washington Post article is already being commented upon here in Free Republic.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/12/AR2008091202414

The purpose of this thread is to help Freepers and lurkers decide upon what the best mode of self defense would be in the case of the breakdown in social order such as happened with the Rodney King riots.

Joe Brower owns one of the RKBA (Right to Keep and Bear Arms) ping lists. I tried to convince him to open this vanity because he and his friends are more knowledgeable about guns. He says, "there have already been threads on the subject you mention right here on FR, although I can't locate them now. Tell you what -- you start the thread and then ping me, and I'll then flag my RKBA list for comments. I'm sure some folks in that group would be able to provide links, as well as plenty of timely advice. "

This scenario is called the SHTF scenario, where the acronym stands for $#|+ Hits The Fan. So this will be the SHTF gun thread for November 2008... Of course, gun ownership isn't for everyone. But it is the most accessible safety measure under our constitution, which is as our founding fathers intended. Recall where the police were when the Rodney King riots started: they left the scene for their own safety. If that were to happen in your neighborhood, what is your plan?

[snoringbear]

“I almost got the .357 revolver, funny you should mention that. The store owner said, “Of course, it will be a little bit large for carrying in a purse.” I replied that I would just get a bigger purse. I didn’t realize that the whole store was watching the little old lady purchasing a handgun, until everyone laughed.

I almost got both of them, also. I’m not sure if I’ll want to be doing range shooting, though, and for home defense, the snubbie is fine for close range. I got regular ammo for practice, and Remington Golden Saber .38 Special (+P) for defense use.

The .12 gauge is just too heavy and unwieldy in an emergency. I know it’s not a huge weapon, but I am little and arthritic. The revolver has fewer moving parts, less chance of something going wrong, it’s double action, nothing to fuss with, just pick up, aim and shoot. Simple to clean.”

You have done your homework - I am impressed. Actually, your choice will work fine, and being that you have arthritis, the 38 special round may actually be preferable for your home defense load over the +P as the +P round approaches the 357 when it comes to recoil. After all, the most important thing is hitting the perp. The bullet, 38spl or 38+P will take care of the rest. Btw, my wife and I have our CHL’s and she carries a 38spl Ruger Speed Six which is a medium framed revolver and she keeps it loaded with +P's. But fortunately, she does not have arthritis and is has good strength, etc.

[graywaiter]

Ah, you’re one of those sneaky turkey hunting dudes. ;) But for self-defense use, you ain’t got to aim it. Just point it.

[piytar]

Short version of my long post: Go to a good gun range. Try a couple makes/calibers out (a good range will rent out a variety of firearms). Ask questions - never met unfriendly staff at a good range. Choose one. Or two. Go buy it/them (buying from a gun store is probably cheaper). Then practice, practice, practice. And some more.

PS For low intensity/home defense, I personlly think nothing beats a pump shotgun. Just the sound of racking a shell will scare off many perps, plus what they leave behind from p#####g/s######g themselves makes good DNA evidence. That, and if they don’t run, its the ultmate “point and click” interface.

[graywaiter]

Haven’t seen one yet. However, anything that put the greatest amount of lead in the air with the least amount of shells/cartridges, the better.

[MHGinTN]

No one seems to have offered to you the following, so I'm going to share it with you for reasons that will become obvious immediately.

When thinking of 'home defense' consider what part of the 24 hour cycle a home invasion will likely occur. Most happen when perps think you are asleep, for obvious reasons if they decide to enter while they know you're home. If you keep loaded weapons in the home, they need to be beyond reach of little hands and curious eyes, like in the top of a closet. For this reason--that you will keep a loaded weapon beyond child play but also not quickly accessible to you--you need to devise 'alerting/delaying zones', locations for you and your children which slow perps down and cause them to make noise to get beyond these spots.

Figure out how fast you can get to a loaded shotgun from the top of your bedroom closet, then arrange a barrier which gives you that much time while the perp(s) are slowed in their rummaging. Also, teach your little ones to 'bar their bedroom doors'. If you need in and the kids have barricaded their room entry, bust it down and repair it afterwards--the drama will end any fiddling around barricading and it will teach all a lesson in how fast can someone get in. You will be thankful if you ever have an intruder(s) and have to defend your position, your life, and the lives of your family members.

A very simple barricade method is the bar which goes under the doorknob and against the floor at an angle, with a chair set at but not against the closed door so that anyone breaking through the door will be stalled in the tumble with the chair.

And finally this: if someone breaks into your home, assume they will kill anyone preventing them from getting whatever they are there for, so use weaponry to drop them immediately upon your sighting them ... you are first trying to stop them, and if they die for their effort, they deserved it.

[graywaiter]

Yep, just depends on where you’re located as to if they are avaliable.

[B-Chan]

Consider a shotgun. I have a Mossberg 500 “Persuader” in 12 ga. that cost me less than $150 brand new. It’s easy to clean, easy to use, and the ammo is reasonably priced. I secure mine against unauthorized use (i.e. Baby Chan) by means of a small braided-steel cable that runs through the action and trigger guard; the ends of the cable are secured by a steel padlock that opens with a key. (I wear the key on a lanyard around my neck when I’m asleep.) If I need to use the gun, I simply unlock the padlock, rip out the cable, rack the slide, and the weapon is ready to fire.

You can likely find one at a pawn shop, gun show, or on Craig’slist for less than I paid for mine.

[Joe Brower]

Sorry to be late the party. From the look of it, my ping is sort of superflous, since Kevmo's post has already attracted plenty of attention all by itself. $:-)

[familyop]

Osage Orange:
"Every spring..and at times in the fall. I most surely 'aim' my Mossberg Ulti-Mag 12 gauge shotgun at 'long bearded gobblers.'"

That's understandable for turkey hunting. I can hit whatever I point at from the hip with a pistol-gripped shotgun (very quickly, 8-inch targets, slugs at 10 meters or so, buckshot to its reach), although the cylinder bore probably wouldn't pattern very well for turkey hunting.

With enough range practice and conditioning (thumb for pistol grips), you can do what others say can't be done.

Long ago, in the Ozarks, I saw such things. For example, a young man of about 14 loaded his muzzleloader in less than 4 seconds (wad from an old cotton rag ripped off with his teeth) and pop a squirrel out of a tree from about 50 yards as soon as the rifle hit his shoulder. He shot a bottle with a pistol (first try) while riding a mare at a full gallop. I saw such things, because no one had told the few gifted hillbillies that they couldn't do this or that.

[Jimmy Valentine's brother]

And finally this: if someone breaks into your home, assume they will kill anyone preventing them from getting whatever they are there for, so use weaponry to drop them immediately upon your sighting them ... you are first trying to stop them, and if they die for their effort, they deserved it.

Words to stay alive by.

[Osage Orange]

But for self-defense use, you ain’t got to aim it. Just point it.

Totally agree.........

MOLON LABE

[P8riot]

Plus, the Model 500 is the only shotgun to pass the US Army's Mil-Spec 3443E test.

Uh, that was the Mossberg 590A1; it's a lot more robust weapon than the 500. Same operating concept though. I like Mossy's better than 870s too.

[P8riot]

not 18 round, the tube would be almost 4 feet long. The shortest barrel a “civvy” can buy is an 18” - 18-1/2”. With a full length tube that should hold six or seven 2-3/4” rounds plus one in the chamber.

[M1928A1 Thompson]

I keep a Vickers, water-cooled is the way to go if you want sustained fire.

[Kevmo]

Sorry you think everyone else must live in a slum.
***Where did I say that? Hmmmm? NO, I didn’t. If you’re so smart, why can’t you avoid the simplest of straw arguments?

Sounds like class warfare and not reality.
***And your response sounds like elitism.

Reality is that no one needs to live in a ghetto. No one.
***We can have this discussion on some other thread, Smart White Man.

And, yeah, it is nice where I live. I chose wisely.
***Glad to hear it. Not everyone has the same choices you do. Get over yourself.

So, go ahead, say something racist and tell me I am a “typical rich white guy”,
***You’re a typical rich white guy

and I’ll proudly say, yes, I am. Smart, educated, responsible,
***Did your parents pay for even $10 of your post secondary education? If not, that puts you in the rarefied atmosphere where I am, the 99%ers. When you came home with good grades, did your parents ignore you or did they praise you? They praised you. If you spent some time outside of your little enclave you’d notice there are people who don’t have the same level of resources that you did. Some people manage to get through school even when their parents didn’t praise them. But I can tell that doesn’t describe you. No, if your parents ignored you with the school stuff, you’d be smoking dope right now in a slum. If you want to have this discussion, open your own class warfare thread, Mr. Rich White Guy.

chose where to live wisely by getting an education and ensuring my family is able to live in a nice place and not a ghetto.
***Too bad your education didn’t bring you up to speed on the avoidance of straw arguments and other classic fallacies. I can see you’re no egalitarian.

[Knitebane]

Uh, that was the Mossberg 590A1; it's a lot more robust weapon than the 500. Same operating concept though. I like Mossy's better than 870s too.

As I understand it (and this is how Mossberg advertises them) the 590A1 is the specific model that Mossberg submitted for the 3443E and it's a sub-model of the 500. The differences are primarily cosmetic with a few operational differences. (Heat shield, magazine extension, etc.)

Functionally they are the same weapon.

[MrB]

A bit “unwieldy”, eh? :)

Yeah, did some looking, the biggest tube mag that I saw was 6-7.

[MHGinTN]

By the by, I noticed the .45 Carbines are available again for $900 w/30 round mag. I’m calculating to get one to go along with my ol’ 1911A w/ 8round mags.

[MHGinTN]

My Winchester 1300 tube holds eight ... always 1&3 duplex.

[joe fonebone]

I love cheaper than dirt.....got a t6 stock for the old sks, now just looking at it will scare the crap out of most people, and shooting 7.6 mm helps too...