Posted on 08/20/2008 10:34:32 AM PDT by illiac
SHOWDOWN: RUSSIA VOWS SHIELD RESPONSE BEYOND DIPLOMACY
Breaking news - just headline.
Is the government going to bring back the Monday Air Raid drills at 1PM, where we “duck and cover”? Now, how am I going to get my fat @$$ under the desk?
I believe Russia will pull back to the buffer zones round the two provinces and that they will move quickly to having referendums in those provinces to become independent of Georgia. I believe the people will vote to do so there and that we will have a very tough time diplomatically preventing it after the horrible and disasterous precedent Clinton established with Serbia and Kosovo.
That precedent was compounded further when Bush recognized Kosovo. should never have happened. it was wrong...but it has given the Russians (who want to pay us back for that episode) this opportunity.
Do not get me wrong, what Russia is doing is wrong and must be opposed...but if the Russians pull back and abide by the cease fire we agreed to, I see very little way of preventing the two Provinces from breaking away and Russia protecting them with troops on the borders and ultimately bases in those provinces proper.
We will have to get the rest of Georgia into NATO IMHO, and then rebuild and modernize their military, and probably have our own or MATO bases in Georgia to counter the Russian bases sure to be built in those two provinces.
As to Poland and the Ukraine...I expect the Russians will threaten and possibly cut off gas and/or oil to punish them and the Baltics and maybe other areas of Europe. Ultimately, if we could do that, the Russians will hurt economically (which I believe they will do anyway) and there will be a time of tension that could well develop into more of these border wars...the Russians trying to push those conflicts closer to our allies and outrselves as opposed to on their border.
With each one will come a risk of major war with Russia.
Ultimately, if we avoid that, and do produce and export our own oil (which means the American people will have to get behind it and shut down the dems), then the Russian people will ultimately eject Putin and his ilk and other like them and then maybe truly join the civilized world.
So you don’t think we’re on the cusp of going hot?
They already did get a significant number of us killed. It was the Ho-hum attitude of the Dems that brought us 9/11. On another note, Obama supports Biden's call for $1 billion in aid to rebuild Georgia, yet he wants Iraq to pay for their own reconstruction. The guy's a freakin' moron.
Before WWII we had less than we do now.
And now we have the ability to ramp up MUCH faster than ever before.
I pray not. It is certainly a possibility because you have Russian forces in the field armed to the teeth and with a bit in their mouth, and they are feeling their oats and we are building forces to oppose them (ie our naval ships will be in the Black Sea as soon as early next week)...but I do not believe it is likely right now that it will escalate into full out East-West war.
With qualifications...;0)
The left can be expected to be literally apoplectic over anything that overly upsets their communist friends.
Ummm Five miles, eh?
And you’re what citizenship? Let me correct your misconception of this being some kind of dumb assed urban legend. It’s a matter of history. Below is the history.
After the war, United States’ control of the canal and the Canal Zone surrounding it became contentious as relations between Panama and the U.S. became increasingly tense. Many Panamanians felt that the canal zone rightfully belonged to Panama; student protests were met by the fencing in of the zone and an increased military presence.[16] Negotiations toward a new settlement began in 1974, and resulted in the Torrijos-Carter Treaties. Signed by President of the United States Jimmy Carter and Omar Torrijos of Panama on September 7, 1977, this set in motion the process of handing the canal over to Panamanian control for free as long as Panama signed a treaty guaranteeing the permanent neutrality of the canal (Neutrality Treaty) and allowed the U.S. to come back anytime. Though controversial within the U.S., the treaty led to full Panamanian control effective at noon on December 31, 1999, and control of the canal was handed over to the Panama Canal Authority (ACP).
Before this handover, the government of Panama held an international bid to negotiate a 25-year contract for operation of the canal’s container shipping ports (chiefly two facilities at the Atlantic and Pacific outlets), which was won by the firm Hutchison Whampoa, a Hong Kong-based shipping concern whose owner, Li Ka Shing, is the wealthiest man in China.
Let me further elaborate:
Mr. Li Ka-shing is the Chairman of Cheung Kong (Holdings) Limited and Hutchison Whampoa Limited. Cheung Kong (Holdings) Limited is the flagship of the Cheung Kong Group which has business operations in 57 countries around the world and employs about 260,000 staff. In Hong Kong alone, the Group includes 8 listed companies with a combined market capitalization of approximately HK$804 billion. Hutchison Whampoa Limited is a Fortune Global 500 company.
Hong Kong was a dependent territory of the United Kingdom from 1842 until the transfer of its sovereignty to the People’s Republic of China in 1997.
Therefore... you are dead wrong.
Mr. Ka-shing owns the company that runs the Panama Canal. His company is located in Hong Kong. Hong Kong BELONGS to the Chinese. Therefore... by default the Chinese Government HAS CONTROL IF IT SO WISHES OVER THE PANAMA CANAL.
This does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling if you follow me here.... :
Russia halts military work with NATO: Norway
Thanks for the ping.
Fair nuff.
Let me ask you a different question, if I may.
How do you think this will be blamed on Bush?
I mean, the world has gotten very ugly all-of-a-sudden “on Bush’s watch” will be what they say.
But. Isn’t Putin THE guy Bush tried to be listen-listen jaw-jaw diplomatic toward? IOW, is it possible that Bush has deflated the give-peace-a-chance theory at once here, perhaps inadvertantly?
"Now and forever, Russia has joined the club of the rogue nations at its own will. The only opportunity it is left with is to develop and strengthen its multilateral relationship with the ones of its kind: with Iran, Belarus, Venezuela and North Korea. That is, to go against the flow, in accordance with its time-honored tradition; to build its special world of its own in another dimension, in accordance with the rules that are totally different from the ones commonly accepted in the civilized society."
Well then join me on you tube fighting back. I have been doing so.
“And now we have the ability to ramp up MUCH faster than ever before.”
First, you say we have assets we can deploy. Second, you say we can deploy them very quickly. You also think fighting Iran and Russia is the same war.
Then, we’ve got people saying we can win a war with planes, satellites, etc but no ground troops.
Criminey! I’m glad we don’t get our military leaders from some of the folks on FR.
This has all the signs of going much uglier.
There was some meeting in Russia and the presidents of Finland, Estonia, and I think Norway stood up and walked out and then flew home.
Apparently in response to Russian propoganda that was very soviet style, something about Russians in those countries, I believe.
If the big one comes, it won’t be short and it will be brutal beyond imagining. Don’t think it will be nuclear. But think of the largest conventional war you’ve ever seen. It will come down to what all wars come down to. Resources and boots in the field.
Meh...
Another pointless comment from you.
That will not work in the Baltics or Poland. It may work for some in the Ukraine, but as each of these countries economy and freedom improve, even those will not want to go back.
I believe the Russians will try gas ad oil cutoffs...but do not believe after what has happened in Georgia (and is still heppening) that they will try this same gambit in those larger countries.
we shall see. In the mean time we need to keep relief going to Gerogia and the US in particular has to keep building up a presence there.
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