Posted on 08/13/2008 6:42:34 AM PDT by shrinkermd
Imagine that America had no system of post-secondary education, and you were a member of a task force assigned to create one from scratch. One of your colleagues submits this proposal:
First, we will set up a single goal to represent educational success, which will take four years to achieve no matter what is being taught. We will attach an economic reward to it that seldom has anything to do with what has been learned. We will urge large numbers of people who do not possess adequate ability to try to achieve the goal, wait until they have spent a lot of time and money, and then deny it to them. We will stigmatize everyone who doesn't meet the goal. We will call the goal a "BA."
You would conclude that your colleague was cruel, not to say insane. But that's the system we have in place.
Finding a better way should be easy. The BA acquired its current inflated status by accident. Advanced skills for people with brains really did get more valuable over the course of the 20th century, but the acquisition of those skills got conflated with the existing system of colleges, which had evolved the BA for completely different purposes.
Outside a handful of majors -- engineering and some of the sciences -- a bachelor's degree tells an employer nothing except that the applicant has a certain amount of intellectual ability and perseverance. Even a degree in a vocational major like business administration can mean anything from a solid base of knowledge to four years of barely remembered gut courses
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
You obviously have never been in an engineering curriculum at a major university. It is NOT a party.
It's a little different in the US. If you go look at the top-tier schools, you are going to find a lot of kids who are immigrants or the children of immigrants. The elite schools don't really function like they did a few generations ago when they were populated by the kids of WASP legacies. With the exception of affirmative action kids, the best schools are also heavily meritocratic.
Now, the kids of the wealthy do have advantages when it comes to getting into these schools- their parents tend to be educated and they can afford to live in the best school districts or send the kids to private schools. But simply being from a wealthy, prominent family isn't worth what it used to be- look at someone like Paris Hilton, who never went to college and is essentially rich white trash.
If anything, the availability of education to the masses has improved access to the American Dream- 50 years ago, the idea that the children of Vietnamese refugees could go to an Ivy League would have been laughable.
Don't forget ideocratic.
You obviously have never been in an engineering curriculum at a major university. It is NOT a party.
Could have gotten the degree in half the time at a fraction of the cost without the added benefits of the fun country club. Wouldn’t have preferred it, but others might. Especially since tuition there is something approaching $40k per year (excluding the fine accommodations and gourmet dorm cuisine.)
I think that the process of obtaining a BA helped me to become a better writer and a more well-read person, but I suppose I could have accomplished this without obtaining a BA. Other than that, the only other positive aspect was enabling me to obtain my first entry-level job. The DC area has an over abundance of people with Bachelor’s degrees...now people around here look down on you if you don’t have a Master’s degree or aren’t planning on going to grad school. People look at me with horror when I say that there’s no way in hell I am going back to school...I would much rather spend my free time biking, being with my friends, or riding my horse. :)
But it’s not “studying just for the sake of school.” All studying has biochemical benefits in the brain. It’s exercise. Who can imagine the number of related benefits? That “excess” studying might have formed the neural network that prevents the individual from getting seriously ripped off in a business deal later in life.
sure now that women are the majority of college students,
now that university education is little more than vocational training,
NOW they decide it is pointless.
Now that they have eliminated the classics, and making students well rounded and knowledgable. iow the ability to ask “why”?
Perhaps you should have taken more courses each term and gotten out earlier instead of partying. Don't blame the univerisity for you lack of discipline and motivation.
I get Huck’s point- you can get past HR and hustle your way into jobs if you know how. Some people are very good at this, and I commend them for it.
But that approach is the harder one, generally. And it simply does not work in certain fields where a specific degree is required to keep your resume from going into the trash.
And even having the right degree won’t get you an interview in many places, unless it is from the right schools. My dad ran engineering departments for several large transportation companies during his career. A resume with the words “University of Michigan Engineering School” on it goes to the top of the pile, while others barely get looked at.
For many, college will be the first, serious $40,000 rip-off.
"College degrees increase the number of doors of opportunity that you can knock on."
You think you can get a job in R&D that requires higher mathematics without a degree? You think that door is available to you to knock on? Answer: No.
do not forget under the new bankrupcy reform even PRIVATE student loans are not dischargable in bankrupcy.
Thus no matter if you never get a job with your degree, you can never evade the debt of a unmarketable education.
Student loans should come with an “employment within 10 years” assurance or be subject to discharge in bankrupcy after the 10 years.
Do I think I can? No. Do I think someone can? Yes. But hey, I gotta go to work now. Been fun seeing all you college types get all snitty. Good for a laugh!
It said “For Most People”, not ALL people..........
Yes, I think so. But not without good people. Good people are always a premium. Sometimes so much so that we can only find them in books.
What happened to taking personal responsibility for your actions? Your suggestion removes that incentative.
ZZZZZZZ. If you come up with an original thought, let me know.
Your jealousy is very apparent.
That statement from someone that has this original thought...
Skip school
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