Posted on 08/13/2008 6:42:34 AM PDT by shrinkermd
Imagine that America had no system of post-secondary education, and you were a member of a task force assigned to create one from scratch. One of your colleagues submits this proposal:
First, we will set up a single goal to represent educational success, which will take four years to achieve no matter what is being taught. We will attach an economic reward to it that seldom has anything to do with what has been learned. We will urge large numbers of people who do not possess adequate ability to try to achieve the goal, wait until they have spent a lot of time and money, and then deny it to them. We will stigmatize everyone who doesn't meet the goal. We will call the goal a "BA."
You would conclude that your colleague was cruel, not to say insane. But that's the system we have in place.
Finding a better way should be easy. The BA acquired its current inflated status by accident. Advanced skills for people with brains really did get more valuable over the course of the 20th century, but the acquisition of those skills got conflated with the existing system of colleges, which had evolved the BA for completely different purposes.
Outside a handful of majors -- engineering and some of the sciences -- a bachelor's degree tells an employer nothing except that the applicant has a certain amount of intellectual ability and perseverance. Even a degree in a vocational major like business administration can mean anything from a solid base of knowledge to four years of barely remembered gut courses
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
HuH?
Are you serious?
Engineer
Doctor
Scientist
Architect
Accountant
Economist
Teacher
To name just a few.
Show me someone who does not have a college degree, but rather ‘study at home’ learning, and I will show you someone who has no business whatsoever in any of these professions.
I was so fortunate to work for a company that offered tuition reimbursement. At the age of 30 I was widowed. I looked at my 6 year old daughter and wondered how I could ever put her through college on a secretary's salary —I could barely make the house payment and put food on the table.
So...I took advantage of the tuition reimbursement and worked full time and went to school part time. Took 9 years to get my BSBA in accounting. I cried when I wrote out DD’s first tuition check —it was the culmination of the goal I set out for myself.
Later joined another company with tuition reimbursement. Got a master's certificate in my field, plus later got an MBA. Not only did the company pay for it, I got two promotions as well.
So —if the company offers it, TAKE ADVANTAGE! They want an educated work force. They would rather risk having someone educated possibly leaving the company for greener pastures than an uneducated work force that stays.....
LOL!!!
You sound like you make a living teaching.
Then again, if you did, your typo might not have made the post.
You bias is supported by your ignorance.
Actually, he is right. Now, in middle age, I see that most of what I learned in College might have been picked up just by reading textbooks and going into a job environment .... BUT ...
For 99% of students, the structure and the competitiveness of school itself seems to be required to motivate kids to learn.
That's blatantly false.
If it’s a ticket, it might be worth the money, but that’s it. Certification would be a lot cheaper and better for society.
No, nuclear engineer. BTW, your typo was OTT!
Or maybe I was in the Army.
“Science and technical areas that require hands-on work in laboratories or workshops...”
I said with an internship.
You mention arts. I make my living in the arts. While I did have the opportunity to exercise my skill in college, very little, if any, of the curriculum applies in the real world.
Then what expertise do you claim in how engineers should be educated?
If you were Milton Friedman, we might be seeing this. I imagine some good schools could offer such a program. It could even begin in grades 11 and 12 for qualified students.
You’re absolutely right.
There are too many people nowadays who are educated. We don’t need anymore scientists, doctors, mathematicians, engineers, etc. anyway.
You didn’t go to college, so you recommend that all young people shouldn’t go either. Very nice.
Oh, and good luck explaining to those young people you advise why they are getting called for fewer job interviews and making less money when compared to their peers with degrees.
“For 99% of students, the structure and the competitiveness of school itself seems to be required to motivate kids to learn.”
Agreed. If they can be motivated at all.
I also think that this motivation will be apparent in K-12. It wont magically appear in college.
Fact is. A trade school type application, along with internship, is all that is needed. Universities are the LONG way around.
If you earn a college degree it proves to potential employers that you can:
meet deadlines
work on multiple projects
engage in critical thinking
successfully reach long term goals
work effectively with others
coherently present facts from numerous different sources
properly prioritize assignments
You don’t need to send me to the moon to develop personal computers and Teflon.
You don’t need to send kids to a party country club to have them learn the essentials to be a productive adult.
All of that is just peachy, but your pleasant experiences have no bearing on whether colleges ought to *require* such fluff courses. I had to take a few silly things while pursuing my chemical engineering degree, though I was able to avoid English classes altogether.
I agree, in part.
Nobody is against education.
A BA, however doesn’t translate into education, for many students. It is a relic of the past, now diverted and bloated for other purposes.
As the old Seneca thought, quemadmodum omnium rerum, sic litterarum quoque intemperantia laboramus: non vitae sed scholae discimus.
It won't magically appear, but it often happens.
Fact is. A trade school type application, along with internship, is all that is needed. Universities are the LONG way around.
Fact is. Trade schools do NOT provide the tools required for many professions.
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