'WIRE' LAW FAILED LOST GI: 10-HOUR DELAY AS FEDS SOUGHT TAP TO TRACK JIMENEZ CAPTORS IN IRAQ

New York Post ^ | October 15, 2007 | CHARLES HURT, Bureau Chief

[Doctor Raoul]

'WIRE' LAW FAILED LOST GI

10-HOUR DELAY AS FEDS SOUGHT TAP TO TRACK JIMENEZ CAPTORS IN IRAQ
By CHARLES HURT, Bureau Chief

October 15, 2007

WASHINGTON - U.S. intelligence officials got mired for nearly 10 hours seeking approval to use wiretaps against al Qaeda terrorists suspected of kidnapping Queens soldier Alex Jimenez in Iraq earlier this year, The Post has learned.

This week, Congress plans to vote on a bill that leaves in place the legal hurdles in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act - problems that were highlighted during the May search for a group of kidnapped U.S. soldiers.

A search to rescue the men was quickly launched. But it soon ground to a halt as lawyers - obeying strict U.S. laws about surveillance - cobbled together the legal grounds for wiretapping the suspected kidnappers.

For an excruciating nine hours and 38 minutes, searchers in Iraq waited as U.S. lawyers discussed legal issues and hammered out the "probable cause" necessary for the attorney general to grant such "emergency" permission.

Finally, approval was granted and, at 7:38 that night, surveillance began.

"The intelligence community was forced to abandon our soldiers because of the law," a senior congressional staffer with access to the classified case told The Post.

"How many lawyers does it take to rescue our soldiers?" he asked. "It should be zero."

[swarthyguy]

>>even someone like you

Thanks for the clarification, sweetie. Now, GFY.

[Alter Kaker]

Someone is definitely confused and it’s you. Read the rest of the posts and you may understand what is going on.

Do you even have a passing familiarity with FISA? The fact that the NSA would even look at FISA in this case makes no sense whatsoever. FISA has never applied to individuals located outside of the US. That means the story is bogus -- either it's completely made up, or a substantial misreporting of what actually happened.

[Raycpa]

Here is another amazing delay tactic that isn't apparent at first glance. The law reads as follows

1802 (a) (1) Notwithstanding any other law, the President, through the Attorney General, may authorize electronic surveillance without a court order under this subchapter to acquire foreign intelligence information for periods of up to one year if the Attorney General certifies in writing under oath that—

So, the president can only act in partnership with the AG. Let me get this straight. The man can launch missiles that could eliminate 2/3 of the earth's population but he needs to "ask his mommy" if he can wire tap Osama bin Laden.

[mware]

Remember when our special ops had Bin Laden in their sites, and were ordered to stand down by Berger.

Watch, Hunting for Bin Laden, someday.

[Raycpa]

FISA has never applied to individuals located outside of the US.

I believe you are losing all credibility on this thread by consistently stating as fact something that the plain text of the law contradicts.

Those reading this thread can see clearly you are wrong according to the law that has been posted herein. Unless you at least address why the law posted herein is not applicable, your posts sound silly.

[Alter Kaker]

It did if the router was in the US.

1. Even if the router were in the US, FISA still would not apply if both parties are located outside the US.

2. Why on earth would the router for local Iraqi telephone calls be located in the US? That doesn't come close to passing the smell test, not that it's particularly relevant.

[Alter Kaker]

I believe you are losing all credibility on this thread by consistently stating as fact something that the plain text of the law contradicts.

FISA applies to foreign nationals and entities located within the United States and its territory.

From the first sentence of the Wikipedia article, I cite:

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) of 1978 is a U.S. federal law prescribing procedures for the physical and electronic surveillance and collection of "foreign intelligence information" between "foreign powers" and "agents of foreign powers" ... on territory under United States control. {emphasis added}

The upshot: anybody who tells you that FISA is relevant to surveillance of communications conducted between Iraqis in Iraq is lying to you.

[xzins]

For some strange reason, I think this deserves a DefendOurTroops ping.

Lawyers and dead American troops.

[swarthyguy]

Yes, I have read Robin Moore’s book, among others.

I didn’t realize Sandy Berger was playing such a pivotal role in Dubya’s administration.

[Alter Kaker]

So, the president can only act in partnership with the AG. Let me get this straight. The man can launch missiles that could eliminate 2/3 of the earth's population but he needs to "ask his mommy" if he can wire tap Osama bin Laden.

Wrong. Under a strict interpretation of the old FISA law, the President would have had to have sought a FISA warrant within 48 hours of wiretapping bin Laden, if and only if Bin Laden were located INSIDE the United States. The new FISA law however gives the President unlimited powers to wiretap domestic terrorists and suspected terrorists without warrants, a power that probably preexisted the updated law.

[mware]

Alter, I am telling you, when the debate occurred in the House this is the exact argument that was going on. The Dem insisting that it would not require special permission if it was two foreigners outside the US.

The Republicans said that it would require special permission if either was in the US as long as the call was routed through the US

I am not familiar enough with telecommunications to explain it to you, but I suspect they are talking about calls using phone calls that would be coming for US satellites that are routed here in the US.

[Alter Kaker]

The whole world is one one pair of wires, almost.

Wrong. The whole world is a series of tubes.

There's really no physical reason the hubs can't or shouldn't be in the US.

Well, actually, yes, there are plenty of reasons why it would be expensive and impractical to rout all of Iraq's domestic phone calls through the United States of America. The bandwidth costs alone would be prohibitive.

[rrrod]

To become a Democrat one must first hate the USA. No breathing RAT should be allowed to serve in the US military!

[mware]

Socks Sandy might not have been in President Bush’s adminstration but he sure as hell had an impact upon it.

[RedRover]

Yes, and thanks, xzins!

[Lancey Howard]

Unreal.
I don’t want to say what my reaction would be if those sick scumbags cost me a son.

[fishergirl]

Horrible, absolutely horrible! Everybody in the country needs to know this.

[Wolfstar]

You posted that Preisdent Bush "bailed" out on our troops a "long time ago."

That is a bald-faced lie. President Bush has stood steadfast and almost alone against the entire country, and much of the rest of the world, in support of our post-9/11 mission against radical Islam. Fault him for other things if you wish, but not for failing to support our Armed Forces and their mission.

[Dr.Syn]

Lawyers on the battlefield...you might as well throw in some professors and make a committee out of it.

Every decision will be tainted by a CYA mentality...billed at the hourly rate!

[Lancey Howard]

The president bailed out on our guys long ago...

It's not that he "bailed out"... It's that he's a coward who is afraid to stand up for himself (and thereby stand up for those of us who voted for him twice) and simply tell the rats to go play in the street.