Obama - Not Born in the USA?

MacRanger Radio Show ^ | Jun 29, 2008 | Jack Moss

[Red Steel]

Fellow Blog Talk Radio compadre David Zublick over at Heading Right says, “Maybe Not“.

I noted back here that when Kos produced - not a birth certificate - but a certificate of live birth there were several discrepancies noted that pointed to the fact - aside from the convenience - that the document was most likely forged. Since Obama has failed to produce a birth certificate, in-spite of several calls to do so, is telling indeed.

I was born in 1958 in the State of Florida and I can get a birth certificate for ten bucks. I doubt Hawaii was so backward in 1961 that it cannot produce a copy that he could show.

The news orgs are NOT looking into this, but some of us can snoop where others cannot. We’ll see what we can find. Fellow Blog Talk Radio compadre David Zublick over at Heading Right says, “Maybe Not“.

I noted back here that when Kos produced - not a birth certificate - but a certificate of live birth there were several discrepancies noted that pointed to the fact - aside from the convenience - that the document was most likely forged. Since Obama has failed to produce a birth certificate, in-spite of several calls to do so, is telling indeed.

I was born in 1958 in the State of Florida and I can get a birth certificate for ten bucks. I doubt Hawaii was so backward in 1961 that it cannot produce a copy that he could show.

The news orgs are NOT looking into this, but some of us can snoop where others cannot. We’ll see what we can find.

UPDATE: Looks like some have filed the ole FOIA request to force the issue. Meanwhile Doug Ross thinks it’s legit.

One note, Certificates of Live Birth are NOT considered proof of citizenship in many states including Florida, while in other states it is.

Again, why not then just produce the damn certificate, it clears up the whole thing. Until we see that, the issue isn’t closed.

[Spunky]

I still want to know how they got the date reading the right direction when the certificates from the front side shows it reading backwards?

[Centurion2000]

I am having more fun finding that direct quote from Obama’s Kenyan grandmother. I am suspecting that it has been purged from the internet. I hope I strike gold.

Good luck ... this is fascinating stuff.

[Spunky]

Also note my post above on the DeCosta certificate where the date shows reading the right direction, which would have to have been seen from the backside, but if it was the backside then the wording on the bottom would read the wrong direction since you can actually read it from the front side.

Things just do not add up. Obama's is a fake.

[Political Junkie Too]

The signature block is almost impossible to see, even with filtering. The closest thing is this post by stlnative, who was able to bring it out after looking where I pointed.

-PJ

[ltc8k6]

They just flipped the section they were working on in the graphics program so it could be read better, imo.

I did the same thing on one of the certificates to make the date easier to decipher.

Choose a section with the backwards part in it, and flip just that section with the program.

Easy.

[Spunky]

"They just flipped the section they were working on in the graphics program so it could be read better, imo."

Then in my opinion the embossed seal would have shown up much better. Like DeCosta's did.

[Spunky]

"I am having more fun finding that direct quote from Obama’s Kenyan grandmother. I am suspecting that it has been purged from the internet. I hope I strike gold."

Then keep on having fun and I hope you strike gold also. :-)

[David]

I am having more fun finding that direct quote from Obama’s Kenyan grandmother. I am suspecting that it has been purged from the internet. I hope I strike gold.

It got wider distribution in Africa in local press--look there.

[itsahoot]

was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years:”

This is the issue, the age of the mother. Besides I don't give a cr@p, this dufus country is hell bent on electing this marxist, so let them all dwell in the house of Lenin, I am old and enough that it doesn't matter to me.

[stlnative]

Did Obama’s mother live in the USA for a grand total of least 5 years (60 months) after she turned 16?

Where does the requirement say that those 5 years (60 months) after the age of 16 have to be accumulated between the age of 16 and 21? (22 actually)

[DrC]

“As historical and textual analysis has shown, a citizen may be both “naturalized” and “natural born.” Under the naturalized born approach, any person with a right to American citizenship under the Constitution, laws, or treaties of the United States at the time of his or her birth is a natural-born citizen for purposes of presidential eligibility.”

The Natural-Born Citizen Clause and Presidential Eligibility: An Approach for Resolving Two Hundred Years of Uncertainty. Jill A. Pryor. The Yale Law Journal, Vol. 97, No. 5 (Apr., 1988), pp. 881-899.

I’m assuming you can track this down on Lexis-Nexis. I’m feeling much better about McCain’s legal situation. The 1790 naturalization statute is the clearest indication of what the term “natural born” meant at the time of the Founding Fathers: children born of American parents are natural-born as they automatically are conferred citizenship at birth. Also, the Founding Fathers easily could have used a more precise term—”native born”—yet elected not to do so.

So how come TWO citizens (including a lawyer!) have gotten up the gumption to file suits against McCain on this issue and none to do so against Obama? I wonder if WJC is working on this behind the scenes while his wife makes nice to get put on the ticket and presumably become the automatic heir apparent once Obama is disqualified by the Supreme Court. I can just hearing the teeth-gnashing from the left already: that nasty old Supreme Court has once again interfered with the will of the people to decide an election... :-)

[DrC]

You said: “Did Obama’s mother live in the USA for a grand total of least 5 years (60 months) after she turned 16?”

Yes, but not before Barack was born when she was 18, which is the only time-frame that matters for purpose of determining his citizenship.

You said: “Where does the requirement say that those 5 years (60 months) after the age of 16 have to be accumulated between the age of 16 and 21? (22 actually)”

It doesn’t: what matters is the accumulated amount of time, but unless the required amount occurs before the child is born, such a mother cannot confer citizenship on her child. In Obama’s case, his mom fell far short of this requirement.

“When enacted in 1952, section 301 required a U.S. citizen married to an alien to have been physically present in the United States for ten years, including five after
reaching the age of fourteen, to transmit citizenship to foreign-born children. The ten-year transmission requirement remained in effect from 12:01 a.m. EDT December 24, 1952, through midnight November 13, 1986, and still is applicable to persons born during that period.”
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86757.pdf

The above document has great gobs of detail about the exact requirements, who has to prove what and how etc., what counts as “physical presence” etc., what happens if American mom is unwed etc.

[David]

“As historical and textual analysis has shown, a citizen may be both “naturalized” and “natural born.” Under the naturalized born approach, any person with a right to American citizenship under the Constitution, laws, or treaties of the United States at the time of his or her birth is a natural-born citizen for purposes of presidential eligibility.”

The Natural-Born Citizen Clause and Presidential Eligibility: An Approach for Resolving Two Hundred Years of Uncertainty. Jill A. Pryor. The Yale Law Journal, Vol. 97, No. 5 (Apr., 1988), pp. 881-899.

I’m assuming you can track this down on Lexis-Nexis. I’m feeling much better about McCain’s legal situation. The 1790 naturalization statute is the clearest indication of what the term “natural born” meant at the time of the Founding Fathers: children born of American parents are natural-born as they automatically are conferred citizenship at birth. Also, the Founding Fathers easily could have used a more precise term—”native born”—yet elected not to do so.

So how come TWO citizens (including a lawyer!) have gotten up the gumption to file suits against McCain on this issue and none to do so against Obama? I wonder if WJC is working on this behind the scenes while his wife makes nice to get put on the ticket and presumably become the automatic heir apparent once Obama is disqualified by the Supreme Court. I can just hearing the teeth-gnashing from the left already: that nasty old Supreme Court has once again interfered with the will of the people to decide an election... :-)

Well Ms. Prior's view is just another Yalies' view. The best current pronouncements are in law review articles published in the Boston College Law Review and in an article analyzing all of the authorities by John Dean, Nixon's White House counsel, all of whom come to a contrary conclusion.

Doesn't mean any one of them can't be correct.

However the argument inferred in the second sentence of your first paragraph--he was natural born because as a result of his two citizen parents, he was a citizen when he came down the shute, is the best substantive argument on McCain's behalf. I think it fails because if Congress can override the Constitution with that rule, they could override it with a rule that made blue eyed persons born within a hundred yards of the Yellow River (and no other connection with the United States) Citizens at birth. I don't think the Supreme Court will view that as a reasonable interpretation of the Constitution.

It wouldn't surprise you to learn that WJC might become involved in the Obama case--he hadn't yet as of last week. But he isn't the most likely culprit on the suits with regard to McCain. An action has been started in each of the states where McCain got delegates to decertify his delegates on the grounds he is not eligible to serve. Careful study of the credentials rules for the Republican Convention will provide a good clue as to who benefits from pendency of these actions.

[stlnative]

“When enacted in 1952, section 301 required a U.S. citizen married to an alien to have been physically present in the United States for ten years, including five after reaching the age of fourteen, to transmit citizenship to foreign-born children.



Was Obama's mother not a natural born citizen of the USA? Did she not physically live in the USA for at least 5 years before the age of 14? Did she not physically live in the USA for at least 5 years after the age of 14?

We don't know if "he" was foreign-born, but if he was and if his mother lived in the USA 5 years before the age 14 (accumulated sometime from her birth to the age of 14) and if she lived in the USA for 5 years after the age of 14 (accumulated from the age of 14 until the time she died).
Then there is no problem.

[stlnative]

Hawaii has been a US territory since 1898.
It became a state of the USA in August of 1959.

Did not all Hawaiians then become retroactive citizens of the USA in August of 1959? (even maybe making them retroactive natural born citizens of the USA - thus making Obama’s 1943 born mother a retroactive natural born citizen of the USA since 1943?)

[DrC]

"if she lived in the USA for 5 years after the age of 14 (accumulated from the age of 14 until the time she died)."
Nice try, but reading the statute language always is helpful:
As originally enacted, section 301(a)(7) stated: "Section 301. (a) The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth: (7) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years..." http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86757.pdf
If Obama was foreign-born, he's toast. Unlike McCain's situation regarding the natural-born citizen issue, this particular provision is crystal clear and cannot possibly be twisted to support Obama's being eligibility to serve as president--unless, perhaps, he wants to be president of Kenya.

[Calpernia]

>>>It wouldn’t surprise you to learn that WJC might become involved in the Obama case

Danny Pearl, former WSJ reporter, was covering the rat routes and money laundering from Kenya to Dubai, et al when he was killed. The first in a series was on the Tanzanite mining. He was never able to release follow up stories. I do believe he had data for the following series on his computer though. I think WSJ handed them over to the FBI.

Pearl’s article is here, in the comments section of this thread on the US Treasuring flagging Al Qaeda Finances.

http://blog.barofintegrity.us/2008/06/14/kuwaiti-charity-designated-for-bankrolling-al-qaida-network.aspx#comment-1123511

[SE Mom]

New developments found here:

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/03/update-daily-kos-an-obama-activist-and-forged-birth-certificates/#comment-420703

Fascinating.

[SE Mom]

meant to ping you to this..

[Calpernia]

Thanks for the ping!