Posted on 06/29/2008 5:50:12 AM PDT by forkinsocket
On February 17, 2008, Kosovo declared independence from Serbia. Some are concerned about what NATO, the United Nations, and the European Union have nurtured there since the military and humanitarian intervention in 1999. James Jatras, a U.S.-based advocate for the Serbian Orthodox Community, put it bluntly last year when he said Kosovo was a a beachhead into the rest of Europe for radical Muslims and terrorist elements. Its an assertion without evidence. Weve been here for so long, said United States Army Sergeant Zachary Gore in Eastern Kosovo, and not seen any evidence of it, that weve reached the assumption that it is not a viable threat.
Nine in 10 of Kosovos citizens are ethnic Albanians, and more than 90 per cent of them are at least nominal Muslims. Most are so thoroughly modern and secularised that moderate doesnt quite say it. The only word that can fairly describe Islam as practiced by the majority of Albanian Muslims is liberal. No nation can be entirely free of extremists, but Kosovo is one of the least religiously extreme Muslim-majority countries on Earth. Radical Islamists arent there in significant numbers now, and they arent likely to be in the future. Some places may be fertile ground for radicalism in the future, but Kosovo isnt one of them for many of the same reasons that Christian theocracy isnt coming to Western Europe.
I arrived here shortly after the declaration of independence, and the first thing I looked for as always when I visit a Muslim-majority country was the treatment and status of women.
Women who dress with their hair, ankles, and sometimes even faces showing in places like Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the Taliban-controlled parts of Afghanistan are often beaten or worse.
In Kosovo, by contrast, almost all women, even in small villages, dress like women in the rest of Europe. Streets, cafés, restaurants, and bars are not all-male affairs as they are in much of the Islamic world, where women spend almost all their lives behind walls. If it werent for the occasional mosque minaret on the skyline, there is little visible evidence that Kosovo is a Muslim-majority country at all. Kosovo looks, feels, and is European.
A small number of well-heeled Islamic extremists from the Gulf states have moved into Kosovo to rebuild damaged mosques and transform liberal Balkan Islam into the more severe version found in the deserts of Saudi Arabia. Theyve had a small amount of success with a similar project in nearby Bosnia, but theyre meeting stiffer resistance from Kosovos religious community as well as from secular citizens.
We are working very hard to stop these kinds of movements, said Professor Xhabir Hamiti, of the Islamic studies department at the University of Pristina. These kinds of movements are dangerous for all nations, for all faiths, for all religions. We are Muslims, but we think the European way. I am a Muslim, I am a scholar, I know how to deal with Islam in my country. There is no need for Arabs to come here. I have no need for their suggestions, no need for their explanations. We created our Islam ourselves here, and we can continue our Islam with our own minds.
It would be wrong to suggest Kosovo has no Islamists at all, but in the last election in late 2007, the countrys single Islamic party gained only 1.7 per cent of the vote. Kosovo is not the Middle East, and Albanians are not Arabs. The majority converted to Islam relatively recently under Turkish Ottoman rule, and Albanian culture was first solidly Christian. We Albanians, Dom Lush Gjergji recently wrote, descendants of the Illyrians, are Christians from the time of the Apostles Without Christianity there would be no Albanian people, language, culture, or traditions Albanians consider Christianity their patrimony, their spiritual and cultural inheritance. Gjergji is a Catholic priest, but I heard similar comments from many who self-identify as Muslims. Albanian people are not very religious, said Agron Rezniqi, of the Friendship Association between Kosovo and Israel We come from Catholicism, and for that, we are not such strong Muslims.
Perhaps the best evidence available that Albanian Muslims, in both Kosovo and Albania proper, differ radically from their Arab world counterparts is their relationship with Jews and with Israel. Jews in Albania had an almost 100 per cent survival rate during the Nazi occupation. The country was known as a safe haven where Jews could find protection under the noses of the German authorities. According to Dan Michman, chief historian at Yad Vashem in Jerusalem, there were three times as many Jews in Albania at the end of the Second World War as there were at the beginning.
Both Albania and Kosovo have excellent relations with Israel, and Israelis are more than welcome to travel and even live among Albanians. An Israeli from Tel Aviv named Shachar Caspi opened a bakery and a bistro bar in Pristina. Nobody has given me any problems or been against Israel, he told me. [Kosovars] had good relations with Jewish people even back in the old days. And nobody here is radical. On the contrary, people are very warm, they are very nice, they have taken Islam to a beautiful place, not to a violent place. When they hear I am Israeli, the way they react, they react very warmly.
Much of the angst about Kosovos alleged radicalism centres on the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), an organisation that no longer even exists.
It was a short-lived guerrilla movement that rose up against Slobodan Milosevics régime, first to fight for independence from an apartheid-like system, and later as a defence against mass murder and ethnic-cleansing. The KLA was always thoroughly secular and in no way resembled a Balkan Hamas or Hezbollah.
Its leaders also distinguished themselves from their Bosnian counterparts when they flatly refused assistance from Arabic mujahideen who wanted to fight a holy war there against Serbs. Albanians dont fight religious wars, not against themselves, and not against others.
There has been no fighting or even tension between Muslim and Christian Albanians, only between Serbs and Albanians.
The danger in Kosovo isnt that international peace keepers are nurturing a jihad state. Rather, a premature withdrawal may lead to a resumption of the fighting between Serbs and Albanians that they moved in to stop in the first place.
As for my blog posts, so you are the little creep who had been camped out on my blog that my site meter tells me is coming from "Tirana, Albania". It figures!
If you think that you are scaring or intimidating me with all this "Serbian women in the harem" and "quoting me on my blog" crap, you are sorely mistaken. My blog is administered and written by several people so that if I were unable to continue, they would. And I'll say the same to you that I said to the idiot who posted a comment to my blog saying that he was an Albanian Jew and yet he was posting from from Saudi Arabia where NO Jews are allowed, (In short he was a lying propagandist, just like you):
"A little advice from this Montenegrin American whose people were never conquered by your scimitar-wielding weirdos -- go plant one of your Wahhabist mosques on Antarctica and teach the penguins to wear short pants & bow toward Mecca, and get the hell off of Christian land! You don't belong in the Europe or the Americas, anymore than I belong in Saudi Arabia. We will never be dar al islam (the house of Islam) and if you consider us dar al harab (the house of war), then expect guilt-free resistance from those of us who know who you really are -- and who never asked for this fight, but won't run from it either."
In other words Sonny, to you and yours, KMAA!
Ah yes, we are supposed to take the word of ONE SINGLE professor against that of Turkish sources who had no reason to lie, because it was their leaders who were lost.
Wendy said:
“No, I emphatically do not mean the Serbs. From everything Ive ever managed to get hold of which appeared believable, the Serbs are the closest thing there is to normal, decent, middle-class people in the Balkans. Im convinced everything weve been fed by NATO and Clinton propaganda organs about the Balkans over the last 15 years or thereabouts is total unadulterated BS. Christians simply and basically do not do the kinds of things Serbs have been accused of. Slammites on the other hand not only do those kinds of things, but excel at falsely accusing others of doing them.”
Well, Wendy, I’m going to have to assume that you are not of Serbian heritage. For someone who is not of Serbian heritage, you have described the scenario in the Balkans perfectly. Thank you for seeing through all the lies and demonization and for having the guts to speak the truth when you know it’s going to evoke passionate reaction here from the Serb bashers.
Other non-Serbs share your insight, but they stay quiet for the obvious reasons, so you are most definately not alone. Thanks for having some guts and for saying so much in so few words.
“ONE SINGLE professor against that of Turkish sources who had no reason to lie, because it was their leaders who were lost.”
tell me what those sources said about Lazar. Even you portray him as being killed in captivity, and other knights running away, so don’t confuse (on purpose) Lazar with Obilic. The question is whether Obilic killed while faking death as Turk sources say or as you say. Who needs a hero?
All you need to know is that in his book on the Balkan wars he relies on pro-Turkish Genocide-denialist authors such as Stanford Shaw and Justin McCarthy.
This guy was funded by the Greek community to teach Greek to their kids..but who has made a living writing books entirely based on second hand sources.
He has the distinction of sitting in a university chair , made possible by the generous donations of the local Greek diaspora community Vancouver B.C. in Canada, a community which hilariously simply wanted a teacher who could teach their clod kids the modern Greek language, a language which Gerolymatos is entirely ignorant of, a major deficiency for a “scholar” who is hired to focus on Greek historiography.
But this is most important—so we can dispense with the reference—as we know there are always traitors to higher ideals in order to advance themselves.
Basically his slant comes with a strong liberal and liberal bias, as in editorials urging a separation of church and state in Greece, for example and calling for Turkey's admission to the EU! That say it all for this cacademic that the mafioso sucks up.
“urging a separation of church and state in Greece, for example and calling for Turkey’s admission to the EU”
wow, he must really be radical not to want a Bishop decide the course of country, sounds very dangerous. Almost like an American. Greece as a country supports Turkey for EU fyi.
But you probably hate him more because he rains on another parade: he states that the Suliotes are 100% Albanians, as most sources say anyway, yet you retroactively adopted them as Greek heroes through propaganda.
It’s not rude if you’re not worth it :-)
Some what surprising is that the battle of Kosovo was not a tactical defeat of the Serbs, (why does everyone say they lost?) since the Turks did not conquer Serbia for another 70 years. Also it is clear the Turkish Sultan was killed in the battle; the Serbian lord was beheaded (must have been captured to be beheaded). And the Turks retreated after the battle.
When reading history I tend to believe the earliest accounts written by a scholar. The lack of early scholarly Turkish accounts of the battle speaks volumes.
jim
There seems to be some truth to that, it appears sacrifice is part of there national character. However keep in mind that in thier view, sacrifice today leads to personal salvation now and eventually Serbian victory later.
Personally I'll take victory now and salvation later. lol
LOL, so you believe one man has the right of ownership over a free people. LOL, you are funny.
"The heroism and tenacity which both displayed as their normal opposition to the Turks deepened under Greek influence into a struggle for political liberty, have cast a lustre and a glory upon the whole war which ought by every law of historical justice to modify the judgment which civilisation has passed upon the Albanians"http://books.google.com/books?id=n1QMAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA222&dq=orthodox+albanian+suli&lr= (written in 1900 after Serb and Greek propaganda that sought to divide Albania)
“LOL, so you believe one man has the right of ownership over a free people. LOL, you are funny. “
thank you, you proved my point. 5-7% Serbs do not have a right over a free people, the Albanians, especially since Serbs came way too late on the Balkans and in 1180 in Kosovo. LOL, you are funny.
So if we were to believe your account of things, the Christian Greeks and Serbs sat on their butt and waived the white flag to the Turks at every opportunity and never "resisted the Ottomans". Instead in your version, it was the "Albanians who were the real fighters against the Muslim Turks (who also brought Islam to the Balkans)".
If that were the case, then please tell me why the Serbs and Greeks who began as Christians, stayed Christians even when it would have been so much easier on them through their 500 years of Ottoman slavery to take on the religion of their oppressors, as Albanians did? I mean, according to you, Serbs & Greeks "caved in" on virtually everything else the Turks wanted, why not religion when it would have made life so much easier for Serbs & Greeks?
And yet the Albanians, most of whom began as Christians when they actually did resist the Turk (although not alone, as you say), then wound up as Muslims just like the Turks?
The answer is that because the Christian Albanians of old have nothing to do with the modern majority Muslim Albanians, who were the ones who not only caved in and converted to the Turks religion, but instead became the henchmen of the Ottoman Turks! Yet, you seem to want a medal for your betrayal of Christ and of your Christian brothers, and not only willing submission to the Islamic invaders but even becoming their enforcers!
If that's your idea of "bravery", then you and yours are a lost cause -- and are certainly no "friend of America" worth having!
“”It was an Albanian who led the Greeks in the War of Independence,...”
It was, eh? And who might that have been? Sonny, Greeks don’t now and didn’t then take orders from sub humans, particularly dirty sub humans at that. For now we keep Albanians around for cleaning out toilets and such like. They seem to like it which, seeing as they come from a toilet of a country, is understandable. By the way, where did you get the idea that the Souliote women were Albanians? Epirus has been Greek since ancient times and the Souliotes are, as they always have been, members of the omogenia.
I’m told we won’t have them around much longer as Kosovo was apparently the next to last move before the big “Greater Albania” push which will result in the end of Albanians and Albania once and for all (the last move will be in FYROM where the Albanians haven’t the sense to know when they’ve got it good). Apparently a number of State Department types (and McCain staffers) are wetting their pants with worry that the U.S. won’t respond if Greece, Bulgaria and at least the Slavs in FYROM decide enough is enough. And nobody in Athens or Sofia will give Foggy Bottom Fairies the time of day when they want to whine about Albanians. They are right to worry, Sonny.
“Behold The Albanian donkey-—the one on the right”
All Albanians look like one sort of animal or another to me...except they are usually dirtier and smell worse.
When the whole process started up again in 99, I decided to make it my business to go out on the internet and learn as much as possible on the subject. Here's what all I learned:
As nearly as I can tell, the Serbs are the closest thing there are to normal decent people in the Balkans. There were 25 or 26 ethnic groups in the yugoslav federation, only three or four of which had any sort of a problem dealing with Serbs, and those are the three or four which sided with Adolf Hitler in WW-II.
In fact the Serbs declared war on Hitler and held him for many months and sent him into Russia in the dead of winter instead of on schedule, but for which we might all be working in a Nazi coal mine in West Virginia. In fact, the Serbs rescued something like 500 allied airmen who were downed coming back from the raids over Ploesti and other balkan targets. Any allied airman who ever parachuted into Croatia, Albania, or any of the other parts of the Balkans was tortured and killed. The Serbs paid a huge price for this, two or three million being killed in death camps in the surrounding states, which sided with Hitler.
Kosovo in fact had been majority Serb prior to the war and was the ancient heartland of Serbia, with 1500 or so orthodox shrines and monasteries. Many Serbs living in Kosovo were killed by the nazis, and Tito, a Croat, moved many more out of Kosovo, and then you started getting large numbers of Albanians moving into Kosovo to escape one of the worst regimes in the commie world in Albania. Most Albanian Kosovars are in fact illegal immigrants.
Bad went to worse after the war until Milosevic ended up having to rescind the autonomy of the province in 89, and that was the genesis of the modern problems of Kosovo. Milosevic had no options; every other ethnic group in Kosovo was being brutalized by the Albanians. According to every account I was able to read, in the winter of 99, there was in actual fact nothing resembling ethnic cleansing or genocide going on in Kosovo; only a bunch of innocent people trying to protect themselves from a low-grade guerilla war being waged by narco-terrorists with money and arms being supplied by other nations.
In fact the whole problem in Kosovo was the Albanians, who appear to be universally hated in the region. These people average ten or twelve children per family, and attempt to ensconce themselves into little corners of other peoples' countries and breed for fifteen or twenty years until they constitute a majority population in those corners, and then break those corners off into their "greater Albania". Greeks, Macedonians, Serbs and othere refer to this as "rabbit breeding your way to power". That's aside from rape, murder, poisoning wells etc. etc., which they also excel at.
From everything I was able to read, Albanians are responsible for as much as 90% of European heroin trafficking, most of the prostitution south of Germany, most of the traffic in stolen vehicles moving from Europe to Russia and the Levant, and on and on and on. Therefore it came as no surprise to to learn that the real reasons such as they were for our involvement had basically nothing to do with Albanian Kosovars, who no rational person could give a rat's ass over. There were six or eight real reasons for wanting to get into Kosovo and together they did not add up to a believable case and the pentagon advised Slick not to do it.
Nonetheless the thing which was on the front page of virtually all American journals at the time was the Juanita Broaddrick story, i.e. a credible allegation of a brutal rape by a sitting president of the United States, and Slick clearly needed something to get that story off the papers. A week after Kosovo started, there were pictures of Slick and his toadies doing high-fives and talking about hitting a home run. A home run, in fact, which cost the lives of several thousand little slavic orthodox children.
As near as I could tell, NATO commanders realized that this thing was another episode of dog-wagging for which they could not ask pilots to risk their lives over and ordered bombing attacks practically from orbit, and then when they realized they could not harm the Serbian military from 25,000', embarked upon a wholesale campaign of what most people would call war crimes, targetting the Serbian people and their infrastructure hundreds of kilometers from any legitimate military target.
Aside from every other problem with Kosovo, the precedent which it represents cannot possibly be allowed to stand. If ethnicity is everything and ownership and sovereignty don't mean anything anymore, then what are we going to say when the UN comes here demanding that we hand Texas, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, and California over to Mexico on the same perverted basis?
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