Posted on 06/29/2008 5:50:12 AM PDT by forkinsocket
On February 17, 2008, Kosovo declared independence from Serbia. Some are concerned about what NATO, the United Nations, and the European Union have nurtured there since the military and humanitarian intervention in 1999. James Jatras, a U.S.-based advocate for the Serbian Orthodox Community, put it bluntly last year when he said Kosovo was a “a beachhead into the rest of Europe” for “radical Muslims” and “terrorist elements.” It’s an assertion without evidence. “We’ve been here for so long,” said United States Army Sergeant Zachary Gore in Eastern Kosovo, “and not seen any evidence of it, that we’ve reached the assumption that it is not a viable threat.”
Nine in 10 of Kosovo’s citizens are ethnic Albanians, and more than 90 per cent of them are at least nominal Muslims. Most are so thoroughly modern and secularised that moderate doesn’t quite say it. The only word that can fairly describe Islam as practiced by the majority of Albanian Muslims is liberal. No nation can be entirely free of extremists, but Kosovo is one of the least religiously extreme Muslim-majority countries on Earth. Radical Islamists aren’t there in significant numbers now, and they aren’t likely to be in the future. Some places may be fertile ground for radicalism in the future, but Kosovo isn’t one of them for many of the same reasons that Christian theocracy isn’t coming to Western Europe.
I arrived here shortly after the declaration of independence, and the first thing I looked for – as always when I visit a Muslim-majority country – was the treatment and status of women.
Women who dress with their hair, ankles, and sometimes even faces showing in places like Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the Taliban-controlled parts of Afghanistan are often beaten or worse.
In Kosovo, by contrast, almost all women, even in small villages, dress like women in the rest of Europe. Streets, cafés, restaurants, and bars are not all-male affairs as they are in much of the Islamic world, where women spend almost all their lives behind walls. If it weren’t for the occasional mosque minaret on the skyline, there is little visible evidence that Kosovo is a Muslim-majority country at all. Kosovo looks, feels, and is European.
A small number of well-heeled Islamic extremists from the Gulf states have moved into Kosovo to rebuild damaged mosques and transform liberal Balkan Islam into the more severe version found in the deserts of Saudi Arabia. They’ve had a small amount of success with a similar project in nearby Bosnia, but they’re meeting stiffer resistance from Kosovo’s religious community as well as from secular citizens.
“We are working very hard to stop these kinds of movements,” said Professor Xhabir Hamiti, of the Islamic studies department at the University of Pristina. “These kinds of movements are dangerous for all nations, for all faiths, for all religions. We are Muslims, but we think the European way. I am a Muslim, I am a scholar, I know how to deal with Islam in my country. There is no need for Arabs to come here. I have no need for their suggestions, no need for their explanations. We created our Islam ourselves here, and we can continue our Islam with our own minds.”
It would be wrong to suggest Kosovo has no Islamists at all, but in the last election in late 2007, the country’s single Islamic party gained only 1.7 per cent of the vote. Kosovo is not the Middle East, and Albanians are not Arabs. The majority converted to Islam relatively recently under Turkish Ottoman rule, and Albanian culture was first solidly Christian. “We Albanians,” Dom Lush Gjergji recently wrote, “descendants of the Illyrians, are Christians from the time of the Apostles… Without Christianity there would be no Albanian people, language, culture, or traditions… Albanians consider Christianity their patrimony, their spiritual and cultural inheritance.” Gjergji is a Catholic priest, but I heard similar comments from many who self-identify as Muslims. “Albanian people are not very religious,” said Agron Rezniqi, of the Friendship Association between Kosovo and Israel “We come from Catholicism, and for that, we are not such strong Muslims.”
Perhaps the best evidence available that Albanian Muslims, in both Kosovo and Albania proper, differ radically from their Arab world counterparts is their relationship with Jews and with Israel. Jews in Albania had an almost 100 per cent survival rate during the Nazi occupation. The country was known as a safe haven where Jews could find protection under the noses of the German authorities. According to Dan Michman, chief historian at Yad Vashem in Jerusalem, there were three times as many Jews in Albania at the end of the Second World War as there were at the beginning.
Both Albania and Kosovo have excellent relations with Israel, and Israelis are more than welcome to travel and even live among Albanians. An Israeli from Tel Aviv named Shachar Caspi opened a bakery and a bistro bar in Pristina. “Nobody has given me any problems or been against Israel,” he told me. “[Kosovars] had good relations with Jewish people even back in the old days. And nobody here is radical. On the contrary, people are very warm, they are very nice, they have taken Islam to a beautiful place, not to a violent place. When they hear I am Israeli, the way they react, they react very warmly.”
Much of the angst about Kosovo’s alleged radicalism centres on the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), an organisation that no longer even exists.
It was a short-lived guerrilla movement that rose up against Slobodan Milosevic’s régime, first to fight for independence from an apartheid-like system, and later as a defence against mass murder and ethnic-cleansing. The KLA was always thoroughly secular and in no way resembled a Balkan Hamas or Hezbollah.
Its leaders also distinguished themselves from their Bosnian counterparts when they flatly refused assistance from Arabic mujahideen who wanted to fight a holy war there against Serbs. Albanians don’t fight religious wars, not against themselves, and not against others.
There has been no fighting or even tension between Muslim and Christian Albanians, only between Serbs and Albanians.
The danger in Kosovo isn’t that international peace keepers are nurturing a jihad state. Rather, a premature withdrawal may lead to a resumption of the fighting between Serbs and Albanians that they moved in to stop in the first place.
Plus we don't believe a damn thing the anti-west, anti-Christain Main Stream Media tells us.
Hey Santino, Appalled but not surprised, Ronly Bonly Jones, old-and-old, The Great Prophet Zarquon, prometheus1982, etc., I notice your using the fake photo showing the barbed wire on the wrong side of the fence.
Peace and justice will return to Kosovo alongside the Serb Army.
The fact that the symbols used by the Ushtase were in use for hundreds of years prior to their use by the Ushtase doesn’t change the fact that they became so tightly associated with the ushtase that they gained a Nazi connection. The swastica was also an ancient symbol and yet it cannot be displayed in Germany or the western world today without having a Nazi connotation. So, when the Croatian’s started to display these hated symbols again it is no surprise that Serbian civilians reacted just like Jewish civilians in Germany would react if the Germans took to flying the swastica again.
Hey Santino, Appalled but not surprised, Ronly Bonly Jones, old-and-old, The Great Prophet Zarquon, prometheus1982, etc., who mentioned anything about the Pope?
You’ve tried that previously and it didn’t work.
And we know all about the anti-Chetnik propaganda put out by the Philby crew in Britain. Is there any anti-Serb lie that you won’t embrace?
The little I know about the region during WW2 was that only the Serbs fought against the Germans and that the Serbs suffered greatly at the hands of the Germans because of it. I've surmised that Germany's support of non-Serbs in the former Yugoslavia is a direct result of old WW2 grudges. One of us is clearly wrong, I will admit the possibility that it is me. However I am rarely wrong.
Re 385,000 troops. Poland, France, etc had lots more and did not fair much better. Germany equipment, tactics and leadership were much much better then anything they opposed in 1939.
Their propoganda IS transparent... Unfortunately, many other FReepers get caught into the “they’re mus so they must be bad, and Serbs are Christian, so they must be good”. Unfortunately for then, most FReepers don’t hate blindly, and can differentiate an Arab that despises us our American culture, and a Croat, Bosnian, Albanian, Kosovar that loves America, our culture, and would fight besides America in any war, as they do in Afghanistan and Iraq, while the Serbs, as a Moscow puppet, supported Saddaam.. The Serb-apologists here use a mob mentality... As you said, their propoganda quickly falls apart- they just use racist insults to try and win the argument... Guess what, it doesn’t work.
Its ironic that you say that those who do terrible things aren’t praised in Albania right after you finished bragging that Albanians massacre anyone who surrenders. Also knock it off with your not so subtle threats toward Bokababe. We have freedom of speach here in America even if that concept may be a tough one to comprehend in your backwards and barbaric country.
You are really hilarious, Sonny. First you accuse the Serbs of "hiding behind the Bishop's robes" and now you, a Muslim, are trying to hide behind the Pope's robes! LOL! Good luck with that -- the Vatican pretty much blew off your "president" and has yet to recognize your sorry little coup.
Name calling may get you a schoolyard audience, but it is hardly the stuff of intelligent discourse -- but of course, that it not what you came here for. Like an infant, you'd rather just smear your own excrement on the FR walls and anyone else you think opposes you. We''ll see how long that lasts.
I am off now to go celebrate July 4th. You can crawl back under your bridge for a while -- and gaze up at a what real "independence" looks like, with envy.
You are setting up a straw man and you know it. The problem with Croatia was not that it was anti west. Rather the problem was that the Serbs in Croatia were very aware of Croatia’s Nazi history and were scared out of their wits when the old Croatian nationalist/Ushtase-Nazi symbols started coming back out of the woodwork. So, they struck first and rebelled. Ultimately the U.S. backed Croatia and Serbian Krajina was destroyed in one of the most unreported acts of ethnic cleansing of the yugoslav wars.
Hey- I give you credit for having a civil discussion... First of all, fear of what happened in a totally different era- and what the Ushtaze did to the Serbs in WW2 is indescribably despicable, isn’t a justification for a pre-emptive attack, and it wasn”t even cited by the Serbs as one of their reasons, so that’s a strawman argument... Secondly, the Krajina event occurred at the end of the Bosnian war... Sorta payback for the slaughters in Croatia... Funny how the Serbs of Krajina scattered like sheep at the first signs of a fight... It was easy for the Serbs to slaughter the Muslims and Croats when they stole all of the Frm Yugo tanks and weapons... Once the Croats and Bosnians started getting arms, the Serbs turned tail so fast, their heads spun...
It seems like a totally different era today. However, WWII was only about 50 years before the mid 1990’s. So, there were many people alive who had lived through the Ustashe terror. I also believe - though I could be wrong - that last time that Croatia had been independant was during the Ushtashe rule. So, the Serbian civilians had some good reasons to be terrified when Croatia asserted its independance from Yugoslavia. That said, I would agree with you that their were some massacres committed by the Serbs in Croatia and many of the Croatian atrocities during Operation Storm were probably motivated by revenge. Unfortunately, no ethnic group in the Balkans has its hands completely free of innocent blood.
I would agree on that last sentence to a point... The Croats had a history, so I could see the mutual hate... The Albanians had conflicts with the Serbs for decades, and though I truly feel the Serbs were overwhelmingly to blame, there was a history of conflict, and the KLA didn’t help... But Bosnia? Hell, they lived in peace and harmony forever, in the same cities.. At the start of the war, the Bosnians were innocent...only after the war got involved did the Bosnians also engage in atrocities- though at far reduced levels-— one could argue that’s because they had fewer weapons, it could also be argued they were revenge killings, as the Serbs instigated all of it, and were huigely disproportional in their brutality, and their blame for the massacres.. Srebrenica was unforgivable, there were so many others to a smaller scale
“Also knock it off with your not so subtle threats toward Bokababe...in your backwards and barbaric country.”
No one threatened anyone Einstein. And I am not a Serb, free speech is what I am using.
"The courage that was shown by Czar Lazar, the spirit of resistance and sacrifice that was born that day at Kosovo Polje also stood as a Christian witness to the world.That was from your blog. Serbs saved Christianity? Fought bravely? Choose sacrifice? Let me repeat it again: Lazar surrendered with his knights hoping to save his life, and other princes left right after. Why do you still keep perpetuating these lies? Shame on you, unless you're getting paid.
Historians and scholars, in both the East and West, saw this great deed and praised the impressive sacrifice the Serbs made to defend European Christianity and their own Christian identity. The Battle of Kosovo on the Field of Blackbirds, was admired for centuries as an ideal of bravery and Christian sacrifice."
jpsb,
that was from a Jewish org. Tito accused them of doing so, but that means nothing to me since he was a communist. Churchill made the decision based on what he heard from British pilots. My last few posts were deleted for spoiling the Serbian image so search for yourself (Amazon Books, Google books, Google Scholar?) and lookout for names that are biased and definitely stay away from Wikipedia.
It appears that the mod is a Serb or one that does not want to hear both sides. Even my book link showing that Lazar actually surrendered was deleted. I don’t make the rules, and maybe he got dozens of complaints from the cheerleaders here.
I posted the Chetniks because Serbs say that he definitely opposed the Nazis. Other Serb groups were helping them left and right (Nedic, Pecanac, ZBOR) etc. At least they should not be bragging or accuse others of having helped the Nazis.
The “GOLEM”, the Serbs and Jews
By William Markiewicz
Stanislawski was Russian — probably of Polish origin as his name indicates — a theatre director who was fascinated with the Jewish theatre and revolutionised it. How strong must have been Jewish culture in Europe to attract a non-Jew to its orbit! A two thousand year old fragment of European culture is gone forever and the world will never again know what Stanislawski knew.
Stanislawski was inspired by the legend of the Golem, a powerful supernatural entity created by the Cabalistic Rabbi Loew (16th century) in Prague to defend the Jews against pogroms. Golem is perhaps the first android in literature. Once the Golem did his job, the Jews, who didn’t fear him and considered him strange and no longer useful, started to torment him. As a matter of fact, they gave him the same treatment the anti-Semites gave them. Enraged, Golem attacked the Jews, and the rabbi destroyed him. The Golem legend attracted not only Stanislawski; Golem was the hero of a varied literature and of expressionistic filmmaking at the beginning of the century. The lines below show how the idea of Golem applies to our times:
Fragments of interview by Mr. James Harff (director of Ruder & Finn Global Public Affairs) given to Mr. Jacques Merlino well known French journalist in Paris in October 1993. Ruder & Finn are a public relations company:
Harff: For 18 months, we have been working for the Republics of Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina, as well as for the opposition in Kosovo. Throughout this period, we had many successes, giving us a formidable international image. We intend to make advantage of this and develop commercial agreements with these countries. Speed is vital, because items favourable to us must be settled in public opinion. THE FIRST STATEMENT COUNTS. The retractions have no effect.
Question: What achievement were you most proud of?
Harff: To have managed to put Jewish opinion on our side. ……………….
We OUTWITTED three big Jewish organizations - B’Nai Brith Anti-Defamation League, the Jewish Committee, and the American Jewish Congress. We suggested to them to publish an advertisement in the New York Times and to organize demonstrations outside the U.N.
This was a tremendous coup. When the Jewish organizations entered the game on the side of the (Muslim) Bosnians, we could promptly equate the Serbs with the Nazis in the public mind. ………
We won by targeting Jewish audience. Almost immediately there was a clear change of language in the press, with the use of words with high emotional content, such as “ethnic cleansing”, “concentration camps”, etc. which evoked images of Nazi Germany and the gas chambers of Auschwitz. The emotional charge was so powerful that nobody could go against it.
Question: But when you did all of this, you had no proof that what you said was true. You only had the article in Newsday!
Harff: Our work is not to verify information. …..
Question: Are you aware that you took on a grave responsibility?
Harff: We are professionals. We had a job to do and we did it. WE ARE NOT PAID TO BE MORAL.
How can we understand that the Jewish establishment was sucked into the anti-Serbian machine so easily? They have nothing to be proud of. Like sheep they accepted Harff’s claims, without making the slightest effort to verify the claims. They knew that Harff was paid to do a job. And the rest of the world, like sheep, followed the Jews, as who can be more expert on Nazism than the Jews?
The charade continues: the media recently reported that Soros has donated a few million dollars to investigate “Serbian crimes”… Why didn’t he donate to investigate all the crimes? Investigating only one side increases chances that their crimes will be blown out of proportion by all those unconfirmed stories about ‘mega-rapes’ and mountains of corpses which have since revived.
Also, focusing on one side’s crimes automatically puts the crimes of the other side into shadow.
The tragedy is, for both Serbs and Jews, that Soros is a Jew. Why this fierce Jewish persistence against the Serbs? Never in history until now have the Jews lead a campaign against one particular nation. The Serbs became the Golem for the Jews. The analogy is even stronger when we remember that the Serbs were the least anti-Semitic nation of Europe and defended the Jews from the Nazis during the war. Why were the Serbs different? The answer is simple: anti-Semitism is of theoretical nature, I don’t know one single anti-Semite who hates the Jews for personal reasons. It’s always religious, racial, social, or, most often, a phenomenon of habit. Rebecca West who knew the Serbs well, described them as people of investigative spirit; of no-nonsense, and no foggy theories. The Serbs have never suffered from Jews until now, and they were not anti-Semites, it’s as simple as that. And what will happen now?
It’s true that the sources of Serbian misery do not lie only in the diabolical smartness of Ruder & Finn and the poor judgment of the Jewish establishment.
For historical reasons the Serbs have no tradition of developing public relations. They also have bad historical luck; for centuries Germanics and Turks have considered the Balkans their backyard. For Germans it’s the route to the Mediterranean, and the Turks left there a remnant of the Ottoman empire — an important Muslim population. The Serbs are the major obstacle to German — Turkish domination in the Balkans. The New World Order considers that a more powerful Germany means a more stable Europe. As for Turkey, it’s a NATO member and US ally so not too much is refused to them. The Greeks also resist NWO, but after the Serbian doom they’ll be easy to control as well. So, placed between Germany, Turkey, and the Muslim world, the poor Serbs and Greeks don’t count too much and they don’t have enough money to buy the services of the devil. All this mess favours the neonazis and the mujahadeen.
How will it end? If the Bosnian Serbs are obliged to leave their enclave, they’ll go to starve in Serbia because nobody is ready to give a piece of bread to a Serb. If they’re obliged to give away all Kosovo, they’ll lose their soul because Kosovo for the Serbs is like Mecca for Muslims, Jerusalem for Jews, the Vatican for Catholics. Nobody in the world is at present in the situation of the Serbs.
http://www.israpundit.com/2007/?p=4006
From a variety of different sources, collected at Wiki including Turkish sources, a Serb (Milos Obilic) killed Sultan Murad I at the Battle of Kosovo and Serbs killed his son.
Some going for Serbs who you say “surrendered”, moron. :
Murad’s death
Based on Turkish historical records, it is believed that Sultan Murad I was killed by Milos Obilic who, pretending to be dead, killed Murad while he walked on the battlefield after the fighting had finished. In contrast, Serbian sources allege that he was assassinated by Obilic, who went into the Turkish camp on the pretext of being a deserter and, just prior to kneeling before the Sultan, stabbed him in the stomach and killed him. Obilic was immediately “slashed to pieces” by the Sultan’s bodyguards.[18] Murad was the only Ottoman sultan who died in battle. Murad’s son, Bayezid, was immediately informed of the Sultan’s death and, while the battle was still raging, called his brother Yakub and informed him that their father had some new orders for them. When Yakub arrived he was strangled to death, his demise leaving Bayezid as the sole heir to the throne.
However, according to the earliest preserved record, a letter from the Florentine senate to the King Tvrtko I of Bosnia, dated 20 October 1389, Murad was killed during the battle. The killer is not named but it was one of 12 Serbian noblemen who managed to break through the Ottoman ranks, probably during the initial charge of Serbian knights:
“ Fortunate, most fortunate are those hands of the twelve loyal lords who, having opened their way with the sword and having penetrated the enemy lines and the circle of chained camels, heroically reached the tent of Amurat himself. Fortunate above all is that one who so forcefully killed such a strong vojvoda by stabbing him with a sword in the throat and belly. And blessed are all those who gave their lives and blood through the glorious manner of martyrdom as victims of the dead leader over his ugly corpse. [19] ”
The Sultan’s tomb remains to this day, in a corner of the battlefield. While it is not in good condition, it has not been vandalized or destroyed - this despite centuries of hostilities between Turks and Serbs.
That “stay away from Wiki” crap “because the Admin is a Serb” is pure lies. Your PR agencies had TEAMS of people working on influencing Wiki but in the end they just couldn’t succeed in burying the historical truth!
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