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Report Finds Little Gain From Vouchers
The Washington Post ^ | June 17, 2008 | Maria Glod and Bill Turque

Posted on 06/18/2008 6:35:43 AM PDT by Amelia

Students in the D.C. school voucher program, the first federal initiative to spend taxpayer dollars on private school tuition, generally did no better on reading and math tests after two years than public school peers, a U.S. Education Department report said yesterday.

The findings mirror those in previous studies of the D.C. Opportunity Scholarship Program...

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia
KEYWORDS: education; schools; vouchers
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To: ClearCase_guy
The US Dept of Ed is lying.

Could be, but I'm not sure why they would be. This program was passed by the GOP congress specifically in hopes of proving that vouchers worked, and it's George W. Bush's education department studying it.

21 posted on 06/18/2008 6:57:24 AM PDT by Amelia
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To: Lokibob
Why should people (senior citizens, grandparents) who have paid for their children’s education have to continue to pay for society's education?

Why should anyone have to pay to educate anyone other than themselves or their own dependents? Private pay or private charity is the one fair way.

22 posted on 06/18/2008 6:58:47 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Drill! Drill!! Drill!!!)
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To: SumProVita
This is probably quite accurate....that these students had some trouble adjusting to more academic demands. It is also important to note that they were looked at after only 2 years in the private schools. This is insufficient time to ascertain what is really taking place with their learning curves.

That does make quite a bit of sense...I had looked at some of the studies earlier and found that on the whole, although the most exclusive schools in D.C. claimed to be participating in the program, most of them didn't have any voucher students, because they said the voucher students couldn't meet their admission standards.

23 posted on 06/18/2008 7:00:01 AM PDT by Amelia
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To: Amelia
Well, I look at George W. Bush's State Dept, and I see that a lot of long-serving civil servants seem to be working at odds with his policies.

I look at George W. Bush's Education Dept, and I see the same thing.

Government employees Unions are likely to support the Teachers Unions. Why? Well, the teachers unions are also Government employee Unions. It would be bad form to start trashing such institutions.

24 posted on 06/18/2008 7:00:50 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Et si omnes ego non)
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To: Lokibob

I’m not so sure they should. I at least can see the idea that that helps all of society, but public education just ain’t cuttin’ it.


25 posted on 06/18/2008 7:03:13 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: DManA
I wonder how these lottery winners were REALLY picked. Rotten cherry picking?

There was some of that, but perhaps not in the sense you intend...

Eleanor Holmes Norton (even a stopped clock...) is correct in saying that some of the voucher students were not "rescued" from failing public schools...some were already attending the private schools on private scholarships or other funds, and then received public funding to keep going to the private schools.

If you read the studies, they don't seem to have received as many applications as they'd hoped from the very worst schools, and they weren't sure why, except that there was a lot of paperwork & initiative involved to participate in the program - parents had to file (apparently complicated) applications, & research and apply to the private schools seperately. They also had to figure out transportation to & from the private schools, if their children were accepted. Lots of hurdles, especially for minimally educated parents in the inner city.

26 posted on 06/18/2008 7:07:14 AM PDT by Amelia
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To: Amelia

It would be interesting to see which schools had the voucher students and then to look at the scores of all the students in those schools. Of course, other factors SHOULD be looked at as well, such as parent involvement, overall motivation of the voucher students, behavior, etc.


27 posted on 06/18/2008 7:07:37 AM PDT by SumProVita ("Cogito ergo sum pro vita." .....updated Descartes)
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To: Osage Orange
How can it be a waste...if you give the "same dollars" that we are spending/wasting now...to the individuals..who then decide where they go to school?

I'm not saying it's not a better system than what most of the country uses. What I am saying is that I see fifth generation families on welfare who can't afford anything spending $200 on a pair of sneakers or $400 on an X-box, but there isn't a book or magazine in the house. To me, that says they don't value education very much and, as such, I'm not too inclined to spend more on them.

No matter the school..there will always be those that won't/don't learn.

Very true. Perhaps one solution is to let them take vocational education only, rather than traditional courses. Another solution is to encourage them to take advantage of the largest and best vocational training institution in the world: the military. They'd learn a skill and find self-worth along the way.

Do you give any of this burden to the teachers, system, etc..?

There's enough blame to go around for teachers, administrators, and parents. My experience, however, it that the parents should shoulder the largest share of the blame for their kids' failures.

28 posted on 06/18/2008 7:08:39 AM PDT by econjack
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To: Lokibob; vladimir998
Why should people (senior citizens, grandparents) who have paid for their children’s education have to continue to pay for societies education?

I don't know about y'all, but my yearly property taxes (which are on the high side for where I live) wouldn't cover the tuition for even one child in a good (or even mediocre) private school in this area...

29 posted on 06/18/2008 7:09:31 AM PDT by Amelia
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To: Amelia

A great school can’t completely compensate for bad (or non existing) parents I guess.


30 posted on 06/18/2008 7:10:29 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Amelia

I am against vouchers because they would destroy the private school system. Now private schools can pick the students they want to admit and those they want to allow to remain, while public schools must admit every one that applies . With vouchers they become public school with the same admission criteria. Ask any P.S, teacher how this works out.QED the present article.
barbra ann


31 posted on 06/18/2008 7:12:11 AM PDT by barb-tex ( A prudent man (more so for a woman) foreseeth the evil and hideth him self,)
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To: Amelia

The key here is that it is D.C. schools. In any other city you would see a difference.


32 posted on 06/18/2008 7:12:47 AM PDT by TommyDale (I) (Never forget the Republicans who voted for illegal immigrant amnesty in 2007!)
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To: vladimir998

An educated society is a vibrant growing society. The vast majority of parents would NOT educate their children without government mandates. Certainly higher education, both Government run Universities and private Universities would NOT be anything like they are today. Pure research would be nil, and society would be agriculture based.


33 posted on 06/18/2008 7:13:35 AM PDT by Lokibob (Some people are like slinkys. Useless, but if you throw them down the stairs, you smile.)
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To: SumProVita

So we give the vouchers program a two-year trial period? And how many years have we given public education to prove itself? Or insufficient immigration enforcement? Or welfare benefits? Or a whole host of other great society programs? Since when is any government program judged on just two years? Or, just Republican ones? Okay then.


34 posted on 06/18/2008 7:14:47 AM PDT by caseinpoint (Don't get thickly involved in thin things)
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To: SumProVita
It would be interesting to see which schools had the voucher students and then to look at the scores of all the students in those schools. Of course, other factors SHOULD be looked at as well, such as parent involvement, overall motivation of the voucher students, behavior, etc.

That's true. If you look at the list of participating schools (especially looking at the schools that actually enrolled voucher students) most of them were Catholic schools and very small religious schools. Some of the smaller schools may not have had very rigorous academic standards to begin with, but Catholic schools usually do.

Even with the voucher program, many of the Catholic schools can't afford to stay in business, more's the pity.

Some of those in D.C. thought that there should have been less focus on vouchers and more on charter schools such as KIPP that were showing great results (although not all charter schools are doing well academically either).

35 posted on 06/18/2008 7:22:14 AM PDT by Amelia
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To: All

A great education is important. So is safety in the schools. I’d rather my son get a “B” in a safe school as opposed to an “A” in an inner-city jungle where the inmates run the asylum...


36 posted on 06/18/2008 7:22:51 AM PDT by Maverick68 (w)
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To: econjack
I'm not saying it's not a better system than what most of the country uses. What I am saying is that I see fifth generation families on welfare who can't afford anything spending $200 on a pair of sneakers or $400 on an X-box, but there isn't a book or magazine in the house. To me, that says they don't value education very much and, as such, I'm not too inclined to spend more on them.

Who is talking about giving "more"?

Very true. Perhaps one solution is to let them take vocational education only, rather than traditional courses. Another solution is to encourage them to take advantage of the largest and best vocational training institution in the world: the military. They'd learn a skill and find self-worth along the way.

I've no problem with either of those solutions. Maybe if we gave people those "choices" with vouchers they would take it.

There's enough blame to go around for teachers, administrators, and parents. My experience, however, it that the parents should shoulder the largest share of the blame for their kids' failures.

We can sling blame around 24/7...it doesn't solve the problem. The NEA has a ve$ted interest in keeping things like they are. And that is the FIRST obstacle, IMO. Why not tackle the things we are more likely to change?

37 posted on 06/18/2008 7:28:34 AM PDT by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: Amelia

The point, of course, is not how the children fare on tests etc, but should the parents have a choice. If we decided programs based on the scores of the kids on the tests many public schools would be closed and we would be looking for an alternative.


38 posted on 06/18/2008 7:30:21 AM PDT by brytlea (amnesty--an act of clemency by an authority by which pardon is granted esp. to a group of individual)
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To: ClearCase_guy
I often wonder why the teachers union gets so much blame for the education mess. If you hate all unions then I understand. I hate that they contribute to the rats, that do nothing for them. The TU does not set curriculum, or school policy. In Texas we are short 40,000 teachers. We can't be worried about certification or expertise, just find persons brave enough to go in and face the little “students”.
barbra ann
39 posted on 06/18/2008 7:30:53 AM PDT by barb-tex ( A prudent man (more so for a woman) foreseeth the evil and hideth him self,)
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To: SumProVita

I agree. I’ve been a victim of inner city schools. They do not, and I mean DO NOT “teach”, they just make you repeat what the teacher’s doing.

I’m glad that my mother taught me while I was growing up because the schools would have made sure I would have fallen through the cracks due to my disability.


40 posted on 06/18/2008 7:32:25 AM PDT by TypeZoNegative (Barak Obama: An American African, Not An African-American. (There is a Difference.))
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