Posted on 05/22/2008 10:46:31 AM PDT by ElkGroveDan
ROTFLOL!
If I'd seen you on the thread at the time, I would have referred her to you... :-) Something like "don't let patton hear you say that!"
Actually, what I said was, there would probably be a couple of FReepers along in a momment, to tell me I called it a 557.
Well, actually, I think the authorities would probably like to go with an M58 about now... ;-)
Me too. Was her name (fill in the blank)mom? I saw several with similar names and just assumed that they were the multiple personalities of murraymom.
They did. Then recanted. Didn't know who was "related" because everybody (except them) were lying. But, that's how CPS operates.
“He says none of the “evidence” CPS gained by interrogating the children can be used in a court of law because it was obtained illegally.”
Isn’t that a ‘bad’ thing?
If CPS screwed up, and the crimes are real, then where are we?
She isn't 14. She's a 22 year old mother of three. That has been cleared up.
The DCS has had TWO MONTHS to gather evidence yet not one person has been charged with ANYTHING. And those women don’t look one bit like they are abused. As have repeatedly said, the very same FReepers who rail against the mainstream media for inaccurate and biased reporting have bought every word the SAME MEDIA has uttered in regards to this case.
So what if they are raising the children with 18th century values of fearing God, working hard, and bearing children? But the liberals in the media can’t have that! No sir-ee! They must be indoctrinated into liberalism right away!
Hell, the damned DCS wanted to go onto the property to “search for children” that MIGHT have been brought onto it AFTER the raids two months ago! The man at the gate told them all to go away and they didn’t come back! Why? Because they didn’t have enough evidence to even get a search warrant.
Suspicion and innuendos fed by the liberal media is all you have.
In other words, unless she stayed in gov’t custody, SHE LOST HER BABY indefinitely. If that’s not a “taking,” then there never was one in the history of the world.
It was not FR’s finest day IMHO.
Now, there are still those who somehow think whatever the Gov’t does to ‘protect the children’ is OK even if it damages them even more. According to them the justice system is flipped around, where innocence must be proved by the accused and the Gov’t is entitled to operate on the presumption of guilt to the point of taking 400+ children and throwing them into a Foster care system that has as many, if not more, problems than the ones alleged by the FLDS. A really crazy, backward form of thinking IMO.
Wow. - awesome clip.
That is mostly correct. The state law appears to be well-structured. The CPS needs a warrant to take the kids. But they can take the kids for up to two weeks on some level of probable cause.
However, within 14 days of doing so, they must hold a hearing. The child gets a lawyer, and the parents have the right to be part of the hearing, and bring their own lawyer.
At that hearing, the CPS MUST provide direct evidence that there is an immediate risk to the child to justify taking the child without the normal due process.
In this case, the CPS held a mass hearing to make the 14-day deadline. 460 kids, 21 hours — that’s 3 minutes per child to prove that the child was in immediate danger, and for the child’s lawyer and the parent’s lawyer to present opposing evidence.
Obviously, none of that happened. The hearing was a joke. And now the appeals court has confirmed what many of us have been saying — that the hearing was improperly held and the judge made the wrong ruling.
The appeals court reviewed the evidence as presented by the CPS — it did NOT base it’s ruling on any contrary evidence by the plaintiffs. It noted that, even accepting all of the evidence as given by the CPS, the CPS had not come CLOSE to showing an immediate danger for a vast majority of the kids, and in fact really had shown no proof of abuse at all, and no children that could reasonably be at risk.
The appeals court further said the judge messed up by agreeing with the CPS and transfering custody of the children — and it ordered that court to reverse it’s ruling granting custody to the state.
The deatils of the ruling spell out exactly what I and others have been saying about this case — that no matter what you think about the allegations against the FLDS, each family was entitled to individually be presented with the evidence against them, and not to be judged based on generic claims.
And they said what many of us have been saying (but more quietly because here at FR this argument would ALWAYS get you labeled a pervert or chld abuse supporter or a rape enabler): The mere fact that the kids are being taught to get married at a young age and agree to sex with older men was not in itself an immediate risk to the children.
I had been working on an example to try to illustrate the problem with the pro-CPS argument. Let’s look at the so-called “lost boys” (note that a lot of the evils we know about the FLDS are based on the stories of an ex-FLDS woman, and not necessarily applicable to this group or necessarily true).
According to the story, boys who become teenagers are cast out of the FLDS compound and sent to the big city, where they wander around until picked up by police, taken into custody, and because they can’t identify their parents, are put in foster homes.
The solution? Go to the FLDS compound, take 10-year-old boys who are living in homes with their mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers, remove them from the FLDS compound, and take them to the big city, where they are put in foster homes.
According to the warrant, they called the wrong county, and the warrant doesn't say that they called the state agency who keeps those records. Looks to me like incompetence (at best) or deceit (at likely).
THere have been a lot of bad names used.
I was actually called a mod.
:-)
“Tomorrow we could have a mass of arrests in this case, and they will all be back to calling us names again.”
“Why not try having nobody call anybody any names, and just discussing the issues raised by the story?”
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