Incest father on 'boys holiday' as his captives languish in his secret dungeon

London Evening Standard ^ | 29/04/08 | Evening Standard

[MrEdd]

The evil father who locked up his daughter in a cellar for 24 years and fathered her seven children was pictured on a 'boys holiday' to Thailand in the 1990s, it has been revealed.

Josep Friztl is believed to have stockpiled food in the dungeon where Elisabeth and her three children were being held.

The four were expected to survive alone for up to two weeks until Fritzl returned. Snaps of the electrical engineer enjoying himself were made public for the first time today.

They come as it was revealed that Fritzl has told police he acted alone.

He has told detectives he was not helped to keep his Elisabeth and their children hidden in his cramped basement.

But police are not yet convinced he is telling the truth and are investigating how he could have bought food and clothes for them without anyone suspecting.

The 73-year-old pensioner, who has now been confirmed as the father of all Elisabeth's children, was today remanded in custody for two weeks.

[ktscarlett66]

On a TV report I saw, it said “Apartment building”. Then I found this on USAToday:

“His daughter Elisabeth was 18 when she was imprisoned in the cell constructed deep beneath the family’s apartment in the building, said Franz Polzer, head of the Lower Austrian Bureau of Criminal Affairs.

“He admitted that he locked his daughter ... in the cellar, that he repeatedly had sex with her, and that he is the father of her seven children,” Polzer told the AP.

According to police, Elisabeth said she gave birth to twins in 1996 but one died several days later.

Police said the surviving children are three boys and three girls, the youngest of whom is 5. The oldest child is 19. DNA tests were expected to determine whether Fritzl is the father of the children, as he claims.

Investigators said they were trying to determine how the victims could have been hidden away for so long from other families in the building and everyone else in the town of 23,000 people.”

It was a multi-family apartment building.

[ktscarlett66]

The sheer amount of work and planning that went into this for YEARS is staggering. I mean, look at that layout and think about it. And no one had a clue. I’ll be the people he worked with for years thought he was a great guy, Mr All Around Helpful Fixit Man, and such an angel for raising his ‘abandoned’ grandkids at his age. You never really know what lies in the heart of another, huh?

[ktscarlett66]

Why? Because she never went into the basement/workshop area of a multi-family apartment building? If it was just conduits and plumbing and storage for his electrical supplies, why would she? Or maybe she did go into his workshop area but look at the layout. There was a number lock panel there, who would have thought the whole back yard would be hollowed out and people living there?

[ktscarlett66]

Ventilation? Perhaps a microwave, toaster oven and hotplate. None of that would even be noticed on the billing for a multi-family apartment building. The grandkids, he brought them as infants, said the daughter (who had ‘apparently’ run away at age 18) left them on the doorstep one morning one at a time, saying she couldn’t care for them. Not unusual for grandparents to raise grandkids of absentee adult children. They were too young to know or remember being downstairs, so all they ever knew was their life with grandparents. As far as resemblence, well, he was their mother’s father as well, so any similarities would probably have been written off as that.

He had a workshop downstairs. And he was an electrician by trade. All kinds of hammering and sawing and noise coming from our garage workshop, sometimes late at night due to hubby’s weird rotating shifts. And kids do put up drawings in their home - mom probably put them up. Happens all the time, just not usually in dungeons.

[Ilya Mourometz]

Ventilation? Perhaps a microwave, toaster oven and hotplate. None of that would even be noticed on the billing for a multi-family apartment building.

ok. Makes sense.

The grandkids, he brought them as infants, said the daughter (who had ‘apparently’ run away at age 18) left them on the doorstep one morning one at a time, saying she couldn’t care for them. Not unusual for grandparents to raise grandkids of absentee adult children. They were too young to know or remember being downstairs, so all they ever knew was their life with grandparents. As far as resemblence, well, he was their mother’s father as well, so any similarities would probably have been written off as that.

I had not read that part about him claiming they were the "runaway's" kids. I still don't see how that would be something that the authorities would just shrug off and say "no problem" without doing any kind of check. Firstly, the grandparents would have to adopt the kids if they're going to raise them like that, or at least be responsible for all sorts of paperwork, birth certificates, etc...Austria is a pretty bureaucratic state. I seriously doubt the authorities would just take Gramps' word for it that his long-lost daughter just dropped off the kids one day.

As for the work onteh downstairs, that also makes some sense, but we're talking a hell of a lot of work for one guy to do--and not just electrician's work. As for the kids putting up drawings, I know it's normal. That's the point I was making. There's something oddly "normal" about the whole living arrangement. The TV thing is really quite remarkable and, if I'm not mistaken, it may be unique in the annals of these sorts of heinous crimes. Victims are almost always cut off from any knowledge of the "outside". It makes it doubly bizarre that none of them ever tried to leave before.

[Spunky]

I went to www.USAToday.com and couldn't find the article you refer to.

Almost all the articles I have seen say house. Below is a link to one.

Scroll down half way and you will see pictures where it says house. In one article I read it said neighbors had heard the kids he kept with him playing in the pool. Observe the back yard in the one they say is his house. Observe it looks like a pool there.

Click Here

[Ilya Mourometz]

Technical question about the DNA tests—how could these determine if he was the father of the kids, given that his own daughter would already pass on his DNA? I’m not doubting he’s the father since he’s admitted it a couple times already; I just don’t know how such a test works.

[Spunky]

P.S. I have never heard of or seen a multi family apartment building where the tenants had their own utility room and a workshop in the basement. That is another reason I believe it was a single family dwelling connected like the houses in San Francisco. Are you familiar with San Francisco houses?

[keats5]

If this underground complex is not directly under the house, he could have excavated the main areas from the ground surface. I could see telling the wife he was putting in a septic system or something. He could do the final finishing touches from inside the house.

The article also states he had another house. The parents might have lived there for a time, while daddy dearest built his prison.

[Spunky]

"Technical question about the DNA tests—how could these determine if he was the father of the kids,"

Paternity tests are used to establish fatherhood between a man and a child. Though they used to be based upon blood samples, many paternity tests are handled nowadays through the use of DNA samples that are far more conclusive than the old blood tests ever were. DNA tests can prove or disprove paternity with an accuracy of 99.99% when done according the prescribed methodologies for performing such tests.

With this information in mind there really is no “reading” involved with paternity tests. After the DNA is analyzed and compared against specific markers that are present in both the child's and alleged father's DNA a report comes back from the laboratory stating that either paternity is present or not present. In most cases the DNA markers used will be provided as well in chart-type readout, but to an average person they do not mean anything without interpretation by a DNA specialist.
Click here

[ktscarlett66]

He owns the apartment building - I have no idea if there were utility rooms in the basement for other tenants but I kind of doubt it. As the owner, he could build whatever workshops he wanted in the basement and perhaps it was off-limits to the tenants. If it were *his* workshop and storage for his business, he would be within rights as the landlord to keep it a private area. If there were no laundry facilities for tenants in the basement, they’d probably have had no reason to ever go down there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/29/world/europe/29austria.html?_r=1&partner=BRITANNICA&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

[nw_arizona_granny]

Photos of living quarters.

[killermedic]

Dude, it’s an open forum, if you are going to do drive by’s to stir the pot, then be prepared to qualify your statements. If you don’t want to be part of the public forum then send a private reply or email to the intended recipient. What you post to the open forum it is going to get responded to from the open forum from all participants on the forum. Deal with it John123

[Spunky]

"He owns the apartment building"

Thanks for the link. In all the articles I have read I never once read where it said he owned an apartment building. They just kept saying house in the pictures. Thanks again.

[ktscarlett66]

You know, sometimes stories like this make me look around at the people I know, and the neighbors I wave to every day and wonder. If someone got away with this - all the elaborate planning and scheming and work to accomplish what he did - and no one had a clue, everyone thought Mr Successful Businessman....you know, I just look at others and think hmmmm.....

The guy 2 houses down whose saw and drill can be heard late at night when I take my dogs out. Is he *really* building bookshelves...? The one down the road who’s always in the garage way back at the edge of the property at night, I can see his lights on. Is he *really* working on restoring cars? (For the record, I think they’re both doing what they say they are, lol). But how do you ever really know?

[GATOR NAVY]

But, to be truthful, I can’t say I know all that goes on in my neighbor’s homes.

One of my neighbors got raided by a whole platoon of DEA and state troopers a few weeks ago. I still don't know what's going on with that.

[Spunky]

"But how do you ever really know?"

You don't even when they are your best friends.

[John123]

Ok... what the hell is your problem? Leave me alone pervert... I’m too old for you.

[BillyBoy]

::sigh::

You know what I HATE about these cases, the media focuses all the attention on the life of the depraved sicko, and nothing on the people we SHOULD be caring about, the victims of these incidents. I don't CARE what happens to daddy as long as he's locked in a hole for the rest of his life (preferably in a manner worse than he provided for his kids) or executed. But it WOULD be nice to know the status of the poor daughter and her children that will be in people's thoughts and prayers.

Here's what little info I was able to gather. There are no photos of the poor children locked in the basement. However, there are are few photos of the children that weren't held captive, and they're a couple of cute kids, you'd never guess they were incest babies.

Real tragic story on all sides. Let's hope they can recover from this sort of thing. I wonder if a donation drive can be set up to help this loving family reintegrate into society.

=====================================================

Elisabeth bore seven children, Kerstin, 19, Stefan, 18, Lisa, 15, Monika, 14, Alexander, 12 and Felix, 5.

Elisabeth Fritzl, 42
Shown here at age 15, shortly before she disappeared. Elisabeth Fritzl is described as being in "very bad condition.". Police said she was as pale and malnourished with hair that had turned white, has told police she was held captive since shortly after her 19th birthday. Detectives said she appeared "greatly disturbed" during questioning. She agreed to talk only after authorities assured her she would no longer have to have contact with her father and that her children would be protected.

Kerstin Fritzl,19
Kerstin was taken to hospital eight days ago when she became unwell and police became suspicious. Kerstin lapsed into a coma, and she remains in a coma. Kerstin remains at the hospital and is described as being in stable but serious condition .Elisabeth had taught the three captive children in the basement how to write and speak German, and they had access to a television.

Stefan Fritz, 18
Police said the 18-year-old had been "surprised" when Fritzl allowed her to go to the hospital. Stefan both had difficulty adjusting to sunlight. He had never seen it before. Stefan and Felix, two of the three children imprisoned in the cellar were surprisingly healthy, if pale, according to the authorities.

Lisa Fritzl, 15
The oldest of the children to be raised in a normal home. By most accounts, the three children who grew up in the Fritzls’ care were well-adjusted, each learning to play a musical instrument. "They had a swimming pool in the garden, we would hear them laughing the three of them," said one neighbor.

Monika Fritzl, 14
(Monika, center photo). Matthias Sonnleitner, who manages a hardware store, said his children had taken martial arts classes with the Fritzl children. Rosemarie Fritzl occasionally came to his store to buy curtains, he said. A school spokesman said: "They are well behaved and always get good marks." Karl Dattinger, 20, a volunteer firefighter, recalls that Monika had received a perfect score on a test of fire safety he gave at their school.

Alexander Fritzl, 12
(Alex, left photo). The social workers found nothing out of the ordinary, reporting that Fritzl's wife was attentive, and that Alexander was doing well in school and clubs, but was quiet and kept to himself. His twin had died shortly after birth.

Felix Fritzl, 5
The youngest of the freed children, five-year-old Felix, told carers of his joy at the simple pleasure of riding in a car after spending his entire life underground. He said how happy he was and how fantastic it was to ride in a real car," said Heinz Lenze, the local mayor.

================================================

Comparison photo of a teenage Elisabeth Fritzl with her daughter Monika, how at the same age. Note the resemblance. This one reaches touches me for some reason.

::sigh::

You know what I HATE about these cases, the media focuses all the attention on the life of the depraved sicko, and nothing on the people we SHOULD be caring about, the victims of these incidents. I don't CARE what happens to daddy as long as he's locked in a hole for the rest of his life (preferably in a manner worse than he provided for his kids) or executed. But it WOULD be nice to know the status of the poor daughter and her children that will be in people's thoughts and prayers.

Here's what little info I was able to gather. There are no photos of the poor children locked in the basement. However, there are are few photos of the children that weren't held captive, and they're a couple of cute kids, you'd never guess they were incest babies.

Real tragic story on all sides. Let's hope they can recover from this sort of thing. I wonder if a donation drive can be set up to help this loving family reintegrate into society.

=====================================================

Elisabeth bore seven children, Kerstin, 19, Stefan, 18, Lisa, 15, Monika, 14, Alexander, 12 and Felix, 5.

Elisabeth Fritzl, 42
Shown here at age 15, shortly before she disappeared. Elisabeth Fritzl is described as being in "very bad condition.". Police said she was as pale and malnourished with hair that had turned white, has told police she was held captive since shortly after her 19th birthday. Detectives said she appeared "greatly disturbed" during questioning. She agreed to talk only after authorities assured her she would no longer have to have contact with her father and that her children would be protected.

Kerstin Fritzl,19
Kerstin was taken to hospital eight days ago when she became unwell and police became suspicious. Kerstin lapsed into a coma, and she remains in a coma. Kerstin remains at the hospital and is described as being in stable but serious condition .Elisabeth had taught the three captive children in the basement how to write and speak German, and they had access to a television.

Stefan Fritz, 18
Police said the 18-year-old had been "surprised" when Fritzl allowed her to go to the hospital. Stefan both had difficulty adjusting to sunlight. He had never seen it before. Stefan and Felix, two of the three children imprisoned in the cellar were surprisingly healthy, if pale, according to the authorities.

Lisa Fritzl, 15
The oldest of the children to be raised in a normal home. By most accounts, the three children who grew up in the Fritzls’ care were well-adjusted, each learning to play a musical instrument. "They had a swimming pool in the garden, we would hear them laughing the three of them," said one neighbor.

Monika Fritzl, 14
(Monika, center photo). Matthias Sonnleitner, who manages a hardware store, said his children had taken martial arts classes with the Fritzl children. Rosemarie Fritzl occasionally came to his store to buy curtains, he said. A school spokesman said: "They are well behaved and always get good marks." Karl Dattinger, 20, a volunteer firefighter, recalls that Monika had received a perfect score on a test of fire safety he gave at their school.

Alexander Fritzl, 12
(Alex, left photo). The social workers found nothing out of the ordinary, reporting that Fritzl's wife was attentive, and that Alexander was doing well in school and clubs, but was quiet and kept to himself. His twin had died shortly after birth.

Felix Fritzl, 5
The youngest of the freed children, five-year-old Felix, told carers of his joy at the simple pleasure of riding in a car after spending his entire life underground. He said how happy he was and how fantastic it was to ride in a real car," said Heinz Lenze, the local mayor.

================================================

Comparison photo of a teenage Elisabeth Fritzl with her daughter Monika, how at the same age. Note the resemblance. This one reaches touches me for some reason.

[PGalt]

Thanks for the ping/post.