Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

A Blood Libel on Our Civilization. Can I expell Expelled?
National Review Online ^ | April 28, 2008 | John Derbyshire

Posted on 04/28/2008 12:01:40 PM PDT by Delacon

What on earth has happened to Ben Stein? He and I go back a long way. No, I’ve never met the guy. Back in the 1970s, though, when The American Spectator was in its broadsheet format, I would always turn first to Ben Stein’s diary, which appeared in every issue. He was funny and clever and worldly in a way I liked a lot. The very few times I’ve caught him on-screen, he seems to have had a nice line in deadpan self-deprecation, also something I like. Though I’ve never met him, I know people who know him, and they all speak well of him. Larry Kudlow, whose opinion is worth a dozen average opinions on any topic, thinks the world of Ben.

So what’s going on here with this stupid Expelled movie? No, I haven’t seen the dang thing. I’ve been reading about it steadily for weeks now though, both pro (including the pieces by David Klinghoffer and Dave Berg on National Review Online) and con, and I can’t believe it would yield up many surprises on an actual viewing. It’s pretty plain that the thing is creationist porn, propaganda for ignorance and obscurantism. How could a guy like this do a thing like that?

I turned over some possibilities, but decisively rejected them all. The first thing that came to mind was Saudi money. Half of the evils and absurdities in our society seem to have a Saudi prince behind them somewhere, and the Wahhabists are, like all fundamentalist Muslims, committed creationists. This doesn’t hold water, though. For one thing, Stein is Jewish. For another, he is rich, and doesn’t need the money. And for another, the stills and clips I have seen are from a low-budget production. Saudi financing would surely at least have come up with some decent computer graphics. No, Ben Stein is no crook. He must then be foolish; and that’s sad, because I now think less of a guy I once admired, and whom my friends admire. Life, it’s just one darn bubble bursting after another.

To return to the matter of computer graphics for a moment, it seems that the producers of Expelled, rather than go to the trouble and expense of making their own, may have just stolen some. (The creationists have posted a defense here. There will probably be a lawsuit under way, which I shall report back on. Oh, and as I write this, I see a Reuters report that our defenders of faith and morality may have stolen some music too. How many more shoes will drop, I wonder?) It is at any rate clear that they engaged in much deception with the subjects they interviewed for the movie, many of whom are complaining loudly. This, together with much, much else about the movie, can be read about on the Expelled Exposed website put up by the National Center for Science Education, which I urge all interested readers to explore.

These dishonesties do not surprise me. When talking about the creationists to people who don’t follow these controversies closely, I have found that the hardest thing to get across is the shifty, low-cunning aspect of the whole modern creationist enterprise. Individual creationists can be very nice people, though they get nicer the further away they are from the full-time core enterprise of modern creationism at the Discovery Institute. The enterprise as a whole, however, really doesn’t smell good. You notice this when you’re around it a lot. I shall give some more examples in a minute; but what accounts for all this dishonesty and misrepresentation?

My own theory is that the creationists have been morally corrupted by the constant effort of pretending not to be what they are. What they are, as is amply documented, is a pressure group for religious teaching in public schools.

Now, there is nothing wrong with that. We are a nation of pressure groups, and one more would hardly notice. However, since parents who want their kids religiously educated already have plenty of private and parochial schools to choose from (half the kids on my street have attended parochial school), as well as the option of home schooling, now very well organized and supported (and heartily approved of by me: I just wish I knew how they find the time); and since current jurisprudence, how correctly I am not competent to say, regards tax-funded religious instruction as unconstitutional; creationists are a pressure group without hope, if they campaign openly for the thing they want.

Understanding this, the creationists took the morally fatal decision to campaign clandestinely. They overhauled creationism as “intelligent design,” roped in a handful of eccentric non-Christian cranks keen for a well-funded vehicle to help them push their own flat-earth theories, and set about presenting themselves to the public as “alternative science" engaged in a “controversy” with a closed-minded, reactionary “science establishment” fearful of new ideas. (Ignoring the fact that without a constant supply of new ideas, there would be nothing for scientists to do.) Nothing to do with religion at all!

I think this willful act of deception has corrupted creationism irredeemably. The old Biblical creationists were, in my opinion, wrong-headed, but they were mostly honest people. The “intelligent design” crowd lean more in the other direction. Hence the dishonesty and sheer nastiness, even down to plain bad manners, that you keep encountering in ID circles. It’s by no means all of them, but it’s enough to corrupt and poison the creationist enterprise, which might otherwise have added something worthwhile to our national life, if only by way of entertainment value.

This dishonesty showed up very soon after the creationists decided to don the mask of “alternative science” in the 1990s. A key episode was the Kunming conference of June 1999. In very brief — you can read the full story in Forrest and Gross’s Creationisms Trojan Horse (“A bad book, a very bad book,” shuddered the Discovery Institute’s Bruce Chapman when he saw it on my desk, like a vampire spotting a clove of garlic), pp.56-66 — there is a very interesting bed of extremely old fossils near Kunming, in southern China. Paul Chien, a little-known creationist of Chinese ancestry from San Francisco, acted as a front man for the Discovery Institute to organize a conference in Kunming, bringing in professional paleontologists from China and abroad, but without telling them of the Discovery Institute’s involvement. The aim was “to produce and then to promote a book containing the conference papers of [creationist] members immediately juxtaposed to those written by respected scientists in the relevant fields.” (Forrest & Gross, their italics.) When the real paleontologists found out what was going on, and how they had been brought across China, or around the world, they were not pleased. Embarrassing scenes followed. No book ever appeared.


Examples can be multiplied. The witty and mild-mannered federal Judge Jones, who presided over the 2005 Kitzmiller trial in Dover, Pa., felt moved to note that: “The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by the members of the Board who voted for the ID Policy. It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy.” The response of the Discovery Institute was to launch sneering, slanderous attacks on the professionalism and competence of Judge Jones (a church-going conservative Republican appointed by President George W. Bush).

So it goes with the stalwart defenders of truth and morality over at the Discovery Institute. So it goes with Ben Stein, apparently, since he has signed up with these mountebanks, for reasons that remain mysterious to me. The misrepresentations in Expelled are far too numerous for me to list here, and the task is unnecessary since others have done it. The aforementioned Expelled Exposed website is a great resource. Biologist P. Z. Myers, in a less organized way, has been pointing up the errors and deceptions in Expelled since the wretched thing hove into view. (Here he links to a whole stack of reviews, including a couple of positives.) Other science-literate bloggers have been weighing in, often very angrily. One of my favorite comments came from “Pixy Misa” (Andrew Mazels) who correctly called Ben Stein's accusing Darwin of responsibility for the Holocaust “a blood libel on science.”

I would actually go further than that, to something like “a blood libel on Western Civilization.” One of the most-quoted remarks by one conservative writer about another was Evelyn Waugh's on Kipling. It bears quoting again.

[Kipling] was a conservative in the sense that he believed civilization to be something laboriously achieved which was only precariously defended. He wanted to see the defences fully manned and he hated the liberals because he thought them gullible and feeble, believing in the easy perfectibility of man and ready to abandon the work of centuries for sentimental qualms.

Western civilization has many glories. There are the legacies of the ancients, in literature and thought. There are the late-medieval cathedrals, those huge miracles of stone, statuary, and spiritual devotion. There is painting, music, the orderly cityscapes of Renaissance Italy, the peaceful, self-governed townships of old New England and the Frontier, the steel marvels of the early industrial revolution, our parliaments and courts of law, our great universities with their spirit of restless inquiry.

And there is science, perhaps the greatest of all our achievements, because nowhere else on earth did it appear. China, India, the Muslim world, all had fine cities and systems of law, architecture and painting, poetry and prose, religion and philosophy. None of them ever accomplished what began in northwest Europe in the later 17th century, though: a scientific revolution. Thoughtful men and women came together in learned societies to compare notes on their observations of the natural world, to test their ideas in experiments, and in reasoned argument against the ideas of others, and to publish their results in learned journals. A body of common knowledge gradually accumulated. Patterns were observed, laws discerned and stated.

If I write with more feeling than usual here it is because I have just shipped off a review to an editor (for another magazine) of Gino Segrè’s new book about the history of quantum mechanics. It’s a good, if not very remarkable, book giving pen-portraits of the great players in physics during the 1920s and 1930s, and of their meetings and disagreements. Segrè, a particle physicist himself, who has been around for a while, knew some of these people personally, and of course heard many anecdotes from their intellectual descendants. It's a “warm” book, full of feeling for the scientists and their magnificent enterprise, struggling with some of the most difficult problems the human intellect has ever confronted, striving with all their powers to understand what can barely be understood.

Gino Segrè’s book — and, of course, hundreds like it (I have, ahem, dabbled myself) brings to us a feeling for what the scientific endeavor is like, and how painfully its triumphs are won, with what sweat and tears. Our scientific theories are the crowning adornments of our civilization, towering monuments of intellectual effort, built from untold millions of hours of observation, measurement, classification, discussion, and deliberation. This is quite apart from their wonderful utility — from the light, heat, and mobility they give us, the drugs and the gadgets and the media. (A “thank you” wouldn’t go amiss.) Simply as intellectual constructs, our well-established scientific theories are awe-inspiring.

And now here is Ben Stein, sneering and scoffing at Darwin, a man who spent decades observing and pondering the natural world — that world Stein glimpses through the window of his automobile now and then, when he’s not chattering into his cell phone. Stein claims to be doing it in the name of an alternative theory of the origin of species: Yet no such alternative theory has ever been presented, nor is one presented in the movie, nor even hinted at. There is only a gaggle of fools and fraudsters, gaping and pointing like Apaches on seeing their first locomotive: “Look! It moves! There must be a ghost inside making it move!”

The “intelligent design” hoax is not merely non-science, nor even merely anti-science; it is anti-civilization. It is an appeal to barbarism, to the sensibilities of those Apaches, made by people who lack the imaginative power to know the horrors of true barbarism. (A thing that cannot be said of Darwin. See Chapter X of Voyage of the Beagle.)

And yes: When our greatest achievements are blamed for our greatest moral failures, that is a blood libel against Western civilization itself. What next, Ben? Johann Sebastian Bach ran a slave-trading enterprise on the side? Kepler started the Thirty Years War? Tolstoy instigated the Kishinev Pogrom? Dante was a bag-man for the Golden Horde? Why not go smash a few windows in Chartres Cathedral, Ben? Break wind in a chamber-music concert? Splash some red paint around in the Uffizi? Which other of our civilizational achievements would you like to sneer at? What else from what Waugh called “the work of centuries” would you like to “abandon … for sentimental qualms”? You call yourself a conservative? Feugh!

For shame, Ben Stein, for shame. Stand up for your civilization, man! and all its glories. The barbarians are at the gate, as they always have been. Come man the defenses with us, leaving the liars and fools to their lies and folly.



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: benstein; creationism; derbyshire; directedpanspermia; expelled; intelligentdesign; moviereview; panspermia
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 261-280281-300301-320 ... 461-467 next last
To: HerrBlucher
Thank you for your post. Dr. Weichart was illuminating. I plan to read his book. I would add that Hitler in the European mileau with the teachings of Malthus and populations, Meade and Galton and their assumptions of Eugenics and the academic America (the same liberals who, after being humiliated by the Prussian induced holocaust), now, having endured, rightly their humiliation and horror as applied eugenics and now replace eugenics with abortion rights and the evolving culture of death, and the Nietzche superman, postulated upon a declaration that God was dead, seized upon darwinian theory as the methodology under his supervision and direction to bring Europe to such savagery that it is almost is incomprehensible. The eugenists have evolved, as a matter of social adaptation, in euphemeism and in deed, to seize the term "choice" to achieve esentially the same goals Hitler desired. Read G.K.Chesterton and he brings it all into view. Today the same crowd who is so incensed to be coopted with the Rhineland worldview, feign gaping wounds at the suggestion of a connection, which is ubiquitous and present for all who care to know about those connections. Academics and educrats, all lay claim to the stake in the darwinian juggarnaut and act apoplectic at someone who suggests the obvious. The Jewish scientists who worked for Hitler were similar in their devotion to darwin, Malthus, Neitzche, and Meade up until the time the 'selections out' began. Only then did their conscience and fear make them adopt a real world view of what was happening. The roots of eugenics lie in both darwinian evolution theory and Malthus. Darwin and Malthus have never been controversial in leftist elitist circles. Malthus said, go ahead and reorganize society so all are well fed. In the long run they could do no good, because they hoped to remove the undesirables...the miscreants, syphilitic, and feeble-minded. Those were the categories which led to other categories....leaving academics and elitist uncategorized or categorized as superior and suitable for life. The problem was that with better feeding and social saftynets, the very ones the elitist wanted eleminated, flourished. Something must be done. So Mr.Hitler determined, as per Nietzches' superman evolved, set about to do just that...Only Mr. Hitler got to do the categorization. The stongman, with the gun, always has his say. The rest is only a matter of method of carrying out his assessment, confident in the belief that 'survival of the fittest' is the only morality suitable for the day. Darwins' science gave justification to a simple 'speeding-up' what was 'scientifically' inevitable, given darwinists dogma. First we begin with Eastern European Jews and move on from there. And to our eternal shame, 'scientific elitist' in America "almost" convinced the country of this dogma. The Restriction League of Harvard championed the cause...consiting of the most prominent scientists of the day. Henry Cabot Lodge gave Congress on March 16, 1898 a speach in support of immigration restriction on Jews and praised the superiority of of the Germanic tribes.

It was in this scientific stewpot that Nazism was born. Scientific officialism and organization in the State which had specialized in them, had gone to war with the older culture of Christendom. Either Prussia would win and protests would be hopeless, or Prussianism would lose and the protest would be needless.

If one wants to understand the debate today, read Chesterton, an observer, real-time who almost singlehandedly held back the Anglican tide turning to that of the darwinist and eugenist. Read Weickart and learn from an observer, real-time of what really undergirded the Hitlerian regime. As Chesterton said, "eugenics (and darwinism) is a thing no more to be bargained with than poison."

Euphemisms soothe the leftist and always have. From Chestertons' day until now, nice word pictures of things not-so-nice direct perceptions among those unstudied on the subject. Like Nietzche and Hitlers' superman, the darwinist assert the upward assent of man to what goal...Godhood? Perfection? At what point does it mature? These notions are not new. Homo noeticus, 'New Man' is their stated new species. Some even declare when that will happen ( I won't say here, but if you are interested it is there for all to see). For now the eugenists progeny are becoming more clamorous at suggestions of the obvious, but they do not give ground to the self-evident history and their stated goals. They have locked horns with the Judeo-Chrisian world view and we find ourselves living in post-Christian country. Perhaps Mr.Stein is a modern day G.K.Chesterton.

281 posted on 04/28/2008 8:55:35 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter (I)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 230 | View Replies]

To: allmendream
No, Ben Stein and you never sought to intimate that Evolution could be untrue or evil or despicable by linking it with Hitler. Heaven forfend!/s

Well I can't say what is in Ben Stein's heart, but I certainly don't think that Darwinism is untrue because it led to Naziism. What I am saying is that, if Darwinism is true to the extent that it indicates there is no God and hence no absolute moralty, then it is a very COLD truth, so cold that we cannot even say that Hitler was wrong for doing what he did, or at least we have no foundation for saying it other than we don't like it and it seemed very mean.

However, there are many Christians that accept evolution but with the provision that God is guiding it, or at least, guiding it to the extent that it relates to Man. Within that framework, much of Darwinism can exist. Still, one shouldn't be expelled simply for questioning Darwinism and that, after all, is the theme of Stein's movie.

282 posted on 04/28/2008 9:05:00 PM PDT by HerrBlucher (Asked on his deathbed why he was reading the bible, WC Fields replied "I'm looking for loopholes.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 278 | View Replies]

To: scottdeus12
Kaker, you’re Jewish? I thought you were an Athiest?

You thought wrong. I'm quite serious about my faith.

283 posted on 04/28/2008 9:15:08 PM PDT by Alter Kaker (Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 139 | View Replies]

To: allmendream
The reference I linked to made this statement as I indicated in my previous post:

“• In Mein Kampf (My Struggle), Hitler used the German word for evolution (Entwicklung) many times, citing “lower human types.”

No, I did not get an electronic copy of Mein Kampf and do a search for "Entwicklung." You can if you want and then if you get a zero then you can come back here with an I told you so. But if you think that simply because Hitler never used the word evolution somehow proves that Darwinism didn't influence him that is quite a stretch considering all the evidence regarding eugenics and Naziism, and eugenics and Darwinism.

BTW, calling me a liar is no way to convince me of your arguments.

284 posted on 04/28/2008 9:19:11 PM PDT by HerrBlucher (Asked on his deathbed why he was reading the bible, WC Fields replied "I'm looking for loopholes.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 280 | View Replies]

To: HerrBlucher

I think Stein was addressing the radical element of scientists (often the most vocal) that are closing the doors of academia to other opinions about life origins. A very Stalinist bunch these people are, I have met quite a few like that. Unfortunately far too many of them post on evo threads at FR.

I just found this article, not about evolution, rather on global warming, but in the same vain the global warming “scientists” are just as militant and Stalinist in their efforts to close the doors. How very medieval of these “open minded” folks: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5736103.html


285 posted on 04/28/2008 9:22:49 PM PDT by Lakeshark (Thank a member of the US armed forces for their sacrifice)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 282 | View Replies]

To: Texas Songwriter
Perhaps Mr.Stein is a modern day G.K.Chesterton.

He certainly is creating a flurry of angst among Athiests that Chesterton did. Still, I think Chesterton was a genius and Stein is simply smart.

I have read several of Chesterton's books, he is one of the great ones. Thanks for you educational post. Now its time for me to rest from this debate and get some shuteye.

286 posted on 04/28/2008 9:23:20 PM PDT by HerrBlucher (Asked on his deathbed why he was reading the bible, WC Fields replied "I'm looking for loopholes.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 281 | View Replies]

To: HerrBlucher
You, I am afraid, are entirely unconvinceable.

But I must call a spade a spade and it is a untrue to say he used the word many times in Mein Kampf when he only used it once.

Once is not many times, to say “many times” is to speak an untruth.

Moreover the single time he used the word it was obviously in regard to political rather than biological evolution, perhaps why you failed to actually provide any of the supposedly “many” quotes.

So it was just a mistake because you didn't get an electronic copy and do a search? Not a lie just shoddy research skills?

Where did you get this “many times” thing from? Did someone lie to you and now you repeat it to us? If you are cutting and pasting please provide your lying sources or I will just assume that anything patently untrue that you post is your own lie. Is plagiarism of a lie any less of a lie, or is it theft as well as a lie?

287 posted on 04/28/2008 9:30:49 PM PDT by allmendream (Life begins at the moment of contraception. ;))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 284 | View Replies]

To: Sun

Thank you Sun. A number of folks have been saying it’s quite good. I appreciate the comments.


288 posted on 04/28/2008 9:57:43 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (McCain is a poison pill. Accept it! http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2006492/posts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 264 | View Replies]

To: HerrBlucher
I apologize, I didn't see the html for the link, I thought it was you telling the untruth that Hitler used the word Evolution “many times” in Mein Kampf when he only used it once, and in regards to political rather than Biological Evolution.

Your source lies blatantly, and assumes that anyone reading it is too stupid or lazy to check themselves.

289 posted on 04/29/2008 12:12:24 AM PDT by allmendream (Life begins at the moment of contraception. ;))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 284 | View Replies]

To: HerrBlucher

Hitler believed in breeding a master race and puriity of blood. Breeding is a concept much older than evolution. He wasn’t talking about humans evolving into a new species, but simply breeding “better” humans within species. This has much more to do with Mendel, a Christian monk, than Darwin.


290 posted on 04/29/2008 12:46:27 AM PDT by Soliton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 266 | View Replies]

To: Maximilian
Sorry, atheists don't qualify as "paleocons."

Have a look at his published work. Then, tell that to him.

291 posted on 04/29/2008 3:25:35 AM PDT by Cincinatus (Omnia relinquit servare Rempublicam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: Alter Kaker
...But creationists insist that there is, insist that their unequal, invalid view

No bias there, huh?

Science IS a religion, and it seems you must be one of the high priests. Unless one accepts that everything came about from nothing, that life began from nothing, and that there COULK NOT BE EVEN A POSSIBILITY OF GOD, you are a heretic, and have "invalid"views.

ROFLMAO...

292 posted on 04/29/2008 3:48:36 AM PDT by WVKayaker ( "Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome..." I. Asimov)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: WVKayaker

COULD...


293 posted on 04/29/2008 3:55:33 AM PDT by WVKayaker ( "Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome..." I. Asimov)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 292 | View Replies]

To: HerrBlucher
From that it is clear that Hitler was an evolutionist. How could he have been anything else and promoted the creation of the ubermensch?

Hitler had no understanding of evolution, or if he did he rejected it completely.
Nowhere in Mein Kampf does he mention Darwin, natural-selection or even the word "evolution" in the context of Darwin's theory. Hitler never mentioned Darwin or evolution in any speech.

The "Ubermensch" is a term coined by Nietzsche, a man Hitler would've detested because Fredrich Nietzsche was an atheist.
Hitler loathed atheists.

"We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith.
We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.
-Adolf Hitler, Berlin speech 24 Oct. 1933

As Weickart noted in his six reasons why Darwinism led to the Holocaust, Darwinism removed the basis for our Judeo Christian moral code and replaced it with a scientific basis for Race Hygiene.

There's no such thing as "Race Hygiene" in Darwin's Theory. Nor are there moral codes, Judeo Christian or otherwise.

... You may call that “twisting” Darwinism but I don’t see where the twist is.

Obviously.

If Dr. Richard Weikart had been serious in finding the origin of anti-semitism, then he would have gone back 1850 years ago to Justin (the) Martyr's "Dialogue with Trypho, the Jew", Tertullian's "Treatise against the Jews", or 1800 years ago to Orgin's essay "Against Celsus", or even 1600 years back for sermons by John Chrysostom.

Hitler, not being much of a scholar, seemed unaware of these works and had to make due with arch antisemitic Martin Luther from 400 years ago.
I think it's rather fitting that exactly 400 years, from the publishing of "On the Jews and Their Lies", 1543 to 1943, marked the decline of the German Reich. Don't you agree?

Quick test, who wrote the following:
1. "The blood of Jesus falls not only on the Jews of that time, but on all generations of Jews up to the end of the world."

2. "The Synagogue is a brothel, a hiding place for unclean beasts." 3. "First, set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. ..." and "They [the Jews] must be driven from our country" and "we must drive them out like mad dogs." How'd you do? If you guessed Origen, John Chrysostom, and Martin Luther, then you know more of Christian history than Richard Weikart.

Weikart's book "From Darwin to Hitler" is an embarrassing piece of work for any honest historian. Although I suppose that if you have an agenda, it's all good, right?

294 posted on 04/29/2008 5:07:31 AM PDT by dread78645 (Evolution. A doomed theory since 1859.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 266 | View Replies]

To: Dog Gone

“Yeah, you did say Stein couldn’t be criticized because any criticism proved his point.”

Show me where I said that - prove it. No, I didn’t say “any”. The “criticizers” such as yourself can’t help but use the exact tactics that he exposes in the movie - generally described as bullying.

The tactic is as follows, and you can’t help yourselves.
“You’re dumb/inferior if you believe differently than we do.”

Yes, that’s arrogant.
Example from YOUR post:
(nose in the air)”Thinking people”(/nose in the air)


295 posted on 04/29/2008 5:51:01 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 245 | View Replies]

To: HerrBlucher

>>What I am saying is that, if Darwinism is true to the extent that it indicates there is no God<<

Do you mean that you think that it’s impossible to be convinced that evolution could be designed by God? If not, what do you think “Darwinism” means?


296 posted on 04/29/2008 6:21:38 AM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (I want to "Buy American" but the only things for sale made in the USA are politicians)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 282 | View Replies]

To: philetus
I believe if Stein wanted a movie that made money, he could have produced one.

Ok? What's the point of making a commercial movie then?

Only ignorant people, who haven’t seen the movie, would trash it for what they imagine it says.

Well, when they release a commercial that starts out with a tired and old false argument against evolution, they should expect some criticism.

297 posted on 04/29/2008 6:36:16 AM PDT by Shryke
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 249 | View Replies]

To: WVKayaker

A pretty good article today linked via Instapundit on the new politburo of “science”: http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-scientific-embrace-of-atheism/


298 posted on 04/29/2008 6:46:02 AM PDT by Lakeshark (Thank a member of the US armed forces for their sacrifice)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 292 | View Replies]

To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
Never mind, I think I know what you were trying to say.

The way I first parsed your sentence was: Darwinism is true in the way it is stated->it must follow that there is no God

After I looked again, I think you meant: One believes that Darwinism requires that there is no God->it must follow that one believes that Hitler cannot be blamed for what he did.

For one thing, some scientists who believe that evolution is true believe in God.

Dostoevsky said in The Brothers Karamazov that "If God does not exist, everything is permitted."

I believe in God and think there is some merit in what Dostoevsky said. A belief in materialism and atheism could lead to the idea that life has no special value.

And yet many atheists seem to value life. Nat Hentoff is an atheist who is pro-life and opposed to euthanasia. I would still argue that Dostoevsky was correct, since I believe that the gift of respect for life comes from God, even though atheists do not know it.

299 posted on 04/29/2008 6:59:29 AM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (I want to "Buy American" but the only things for sale made in the USA are politicians)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 296 | View Replies]

To: WVKayaker
Science IS a religion,...

The Founding Fathers disagree, since one of the powers of Congress is to promote the progress of science and the useful arts.

300 posted on 04/29/2008 7:01:23 AM PDT by Ken H
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 292 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 261-280281-300301-320 ... 461-467 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson