Posted on 04/28/2008 12:01:40 PM PDT by Delacon
So whats going on here with this stupid Expelled movie? No, I havent seen the dang thing. Ive been reading about it steadily for weeks now though, both pro (including the pieces by David Klinghoffer and Dave Berg on National Review Online) and con, and I cant believe it would yield up many surprises on an actual viewing. Its pretty plain that the thing is creationist porn, propaganda for ignorance and obscurantism. How could a guy like this do a thing like that?
I turned over some possibilities, but decisively rejected them all. The first thing that came to mind was Saudi money. Half of the evils and absurdities in our society seem to have a Saudi prince behind them somewhere, and the Wahhabists are, like all fundamentalist Muslims, committed creationists. This doesnt hold water, though. For one thing, Stein is Jewish. For another, he is rich, and doesnt need the money. And for another, the stills and clips I have seen are from a low-budget production. Saudi financing would surely at least have come up with some decent computer graphics. No, Ben Stein is no crook. He must then be foolish; and thats sad, because I now think less of a guy I once admired, and whom my friends admire. Life, its just one darn bubble bursting after another.
To return to the matter of computer graphics for a moment, it seems that the producers of Expelled, rather than go to the trouble and expense of making their own, may have just stolen some. (The creationists have posted a defense here. There will probably be a lawsuit under way, which I shall report back on. Oh, and as I write this, I see a Reuters report that our defenders of faith and morality may have stolen some music too. How many more shoes will drop, I wonder?) It is at any rate clear that they engaged in much deception with the subjects they interviewed for the movie, many of whom are complaining loudly. This, together with much, much else about the movie, can be read about on the Expelled Exposed website put up by the National Center for Science Education, which I urge all interested readers to explore.
These dishonesties do not surprise me. When talking about the creationists to people who dont follow these controversies closely, I have found that the hardest thing to get across is the shifty, low-cunning aspect of the whole modern creationist enterprise. Individual creationists can be very nice people, though they get nicer the further away they are from the full-time core enterprise of modern creationism at the Discovery Institute. The enterprise as a whole, however, really doesnt smell good. You notice this when youre around it a lot. I shall give some more examples in a minute; but what accounts for all this dishonesty and misrepresentation?
My own theory is that the creationists have been morally corrupted by the constant effort of pretending not to be what they are. What they are, as is amply documented, is a pressure group for religious teaching in public schools.
Now, there is nothing wrong with that. We are a nation of pressure groups, and one more would hardly notice. However, since parents who want their kids religiously educated already have plenty of private and parochial schools to choose from (half the kids on my street have attended parochial school), as well as the option of home schooling, now very well organized and supported (and heartily approved of by me: I just wish I knew how they find the time); and since current jurisprudence, how correctly I am not competent to say, regards tax-funded religious instruction as unconstitutional; creationists are a pressure group without hope, if they campaign openly for the thing they want.
Understanding this, the creationists took the morally fatal decision to campaign clandestinely. They overhauled creationism as intelligent design, roped in a handful of eccentric non-Christian cranks keen for a well-funded vehicle to help them push their own flat-earth theories, and set about presenting themselves to the public as alternative science" engaged in a controversy with a closed-minded, reactionary science establishment fearful of new ideas. (Ignoring the fact that without a constant supply of new ideas, there would be nothing for scientists to do.) Nothing to do with religion at all!
I think this willful act of deception has corrupted creationism irredeemably. The old Biblical creationists were, in my opinion, wrong-headed, but they were mostly honest people. The intelligent design crowd lean more in the other direction. Hence the dishonesty and sheer nastiness, even down to plain bad manners, that you keep encountering in ID circles. Its by no means all of them, but its enough to corrupt and poison the creationist enterprise, which might otherwise have added something worthwhile to our national life, if only by way of entertainment value.
This dishonesty showed up very soon after the creationists decided to don the mask of alternative science in the 1990s. A key episode was the Kunming conference of June 1999. In very brief you can read the full story in Forrest and Grosss Creationisms Trojan Horse (A bad book, a very bad book, shuddered the Discovery Institutes Bruce Chapman when he saw it on my desk, like a vampire spotting a clove of garlic), pp.56-66 there is a very interesting bed of extremely old fossils near Kunming, in southern China. Paul Chien, a little-known creationist of Chinese ancestry from San Francisco, acted as a front man for the Discovery Institute to organize a conference in Kunming, bringing in professional paleontologists from China and abroad, but without telling them of the Discovery Institutes involvement. The aim was to produce and then to promote a book containing the conference papers of [creationist] members immediately juxtaposed to those written by respected scientists in the relevant fields. (Forrest & Gross, their italics.) When the real paleontologists found out what was going on, and how they had been brought across China, or around the world, they were not pleased. Embarrassing scenes followed. No book ever appeared.
Examples can be multiplied. The witty and mild-mannered federal Judge Jones, who presided over the 2005 Kitzmiller trial in Dover, Pa., felt moved to note that: The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by the members of the Board who voted for the ID Policy. It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy. The response of the Discovery Institute was to launch sneering, slanderous attacks on the professionalism and competence of Judge Jones (a church-going conservative Republican appointed by President George W. Bush).
So it goes with the stalwart defenders of truth and morality over at the Discovery Institute. So it goes with Ben Stein, apparently, since he has signed up with these mountebanks, for reasons that remain mysterious to me. The misrepresentations in Expelled are far too numerous for me to list here, and the task is unnecessary since others have done it. The aforementioned Expelled Exposed website is a great resource. Biologist P. Z. Myers, in a less organized way, has been pointing up the errors and deceptions in Expelled since the wretched thing hove into view. (Here he links to a whole stack of reviews, including a couple of positives.) Other science-literate bloggers have been weighing in, often very angrily. One of my favorite comments came from Pixy Misa (Andrew Mazels) who correctly called Ben Stein's accusing Darwin of responsibility for the Holocaust a blood libel on science.
I would actually go further than that, to something like a blood libel on Western Civilization. One of the most-quoted remarks by one conservative writer about another was Evelyn Waugh's on Kipling. It bears quoting again.
[Kipling] was a conservative in the sense that he believed civilization to be something laboriously achieved which was only precariously defended. He wanted to see the defences fully manned and he hated the liberals because he thought them gullible and feeble, believing in the easy perfectibility of man and ready to abandon the work of centuries for sentimental qualms.
Western civilization has many glories. There are the legacies of the ancients, in literature and thought. There are the late-medieval cathedrals, those huge miracles of stone, statuary, and spiritual devotion. There is painting, music, the orderly cityscapes of Renaissance Italy, the peaceful, self-governed townships of old New England and the Frontier, the steel marvels of the early industrial revolution, our parliaments and courts of law, our great universities with their spirit of restless inquiry.
And there is science, perhaps the greatest of all our achievements, because nowhere else on earth did it appear. China, India, the Muslim world, all had fine cities and systems of law, architecture and painting, poetry and prose, religion and philosophy. None of them ever accomplished what began in northwest Europe in the later 17th century, though: a scientific revolution. Thoughtful men and women came together in learned societies to compare notes on their observations of the natural world, to test their ideas in experiments, and in reasoned argument against the ideas of others, and to publish their results in learned journals. A body of common knowledge gradually accumulated. Patterns were observed, laws discerned and stated.
If I write with more feeling than usual here it is because I have just shipped off a review to an editor (for another magazine) of Gino Segrès new book about the history of quantum mechanics. Its a good, if not very remarkable, book giving pen-portraits of the great players in physics during the 1920s and 1930s, and of their meetings and disagreements. Segrè, a particle physicist himself, who has been around for a while, knew some of these people personally, and of course heard many anecdotes from their intellectual descendants. It's a warm book, full of feeling for the scientists and their magnificent enterprise, struggling with some of the most difficult problems the human intellect has ever confronted, striving with all their powers to understand what can barely be understood.
Gino Segrès book and, of course, hundreds like it (I have, ahem, dabbled myself) brings to us a feeling for what the scientific endeavor is like, and how painfully its triumphs are won, with what sweat and tears. Our scientific theories are the crowning adornments of our civilization, towering monuments of intellectual effort, built from untold millions of hours of observation, measurement, classification, discussion, and deliberation. This is quite apart from their wonderful utility from the light, heat, and mobility they give us, the drugs and the gadgets and the media. (A thank you wouldnt go amiss.) Simply as intellectual constructs, our well-established scientific theories are awe-inspiring.
And now here is Ben Stein, sneering and scoffing at Darwin, a man who spent decades observing and pondering the natural world that world Stein glimpses through the window of his automobile now and then, when hes not chattering into his cell phone. Stein claims to be doing it in the name of an alternative theory of the origin of species: Yet no such alternative theory has ever been presented, nor is one presented in the movie, nor even hinted at. There is only a gaggle of fools and fraudsters, gaping and pointing like Apaches on seeing their first locomotive: Look! It moves! There must be a ghost inside making it move!
The intelligent design hoax is not merely non-science, nor even merely anti-science; it is anti-civilization. It is an appeal to barbarism, to the sensibilities of those Apaches, made by people who lack the imaginative power to know the horrors of true barbarism. (A thing that cannot be said of Darwin. See Chapter X of Voyage of the Beagle.)
And yes: When our greatest achievements are blamed for our greatest moral failures, that is a blood libel against Western civilization itself. What next, Ben? Johann Sebastian Bach ran a slave-trading enterprise on the side? Kepler started the Thirty Years War? Tolstoy instigated the Kishinev Pogrom? Dante was a bag-man for the Golden Horde? Why not go smash a few windows in Chartres Cathedral, Ben? Break wind in a chamber-music concert? Splash some red paint around in the Uffizi? Which other of our civilizational achievements would you like to sneer at? What else from what Waugh called the work of centuries would you like to abandon for sentimental qualms? You call yourself a conservative? Feugh!
For shame, Ben Stein, for shame. Stand up for your civilization, man! and all its glories. The barbarians are at the gate, as they always have been. Come man the defenses with us, leaving the liars and fools to their lies and folly.
Hasn’t seen the movie, repeats lies, and can’t understand. Go figure!
That is such a tired argument.
Everytime another transistional fossil is found, we hear, "Yeah, well where is the one after that?"
Just admit it. No amount of evidence can possibly ever convince you. At least that would be honest.
Are you saying Darwin was wrong for postulating about a science that is now know as genetics?
Do you blame the Wright Brothers for 9/11?
TP you are the one who started the Hitler analogies. My only point was that those who shout that Derbyshire has no credibility on the science versus ID agrument because he hasn’t seen the movie, are full of hooey.
It never ceases to amaze me...how liberals are so arrogant that they believe the 90%+ of us that don’t hate God should have to pay for private schools, while the too easily offended Godless 10% get a free pass, and dictate that ALL children (except those lucky enough to be able to afford private schools, hypocrat Bill Clinton comes to mind) be taught to fear publically expressing their faith or belief in Him, NOT from peers but the liberal NEA types.
It SHOULD be that the Michael Newdow’s of the world be forced to pay for out of pocket expenses, NOT hijacking the govt. to BAN God or whatever else next will offend them.
I hope sooner than later that day will come, it’s OBVIOUS there’s something seriously wrong with the way liberals run things!
THANKFULLY Christians are starting to get REALLY tired of the Godless liberal insanity of separation of church and state and other lunacies...as well as the unfounded fear-mongering of an auto-theocracy and proselytizing if some child DARE publically profess Christ as his or her savior; BEFORE it’s too late!
ThomasMore.org
ACLJ.org
Liberals believe:
all religion is the problem with the world.
Cops and bad guys are exactly the same...corrupt and like guns/violence.
The military is the same in all countries. They carry guns, like violence and like to kill innocent people.
No one should be rich, all people should have the same, regardless of intellect, ability, etc.
Trees and animals are more important than people.
The U.S. is the last superpwoer and therefore the source of evil in the world.
Christians are bitter people that cling to God and guns.
To BE a Christian one must attend church.
Do your parents love you?
Science, and even evolution, are not conservative/liberal things.
It has nothing to do with politics as long as its science. Gravity has nothing to do with liberals or conservatives, but it’s only a scientific theory, too.
Creationists are not radical islamics, although I don’t think that was really what they were called on this thread. I don’t see why there can’t be a respectiful disagreement.
People should be free to believe the earth is 6,000 years old, Noah’s Flood was worldwide and only 4,000 years ago, and dinosaurs are just something we don’t want to talk about.
Fine.
There is no need for religion and science to agree. The very rules of science prohibit it from getting into the religious realm. It passes no judgment on religion at all.
Religion observes no such restrictions, and it’s been proven incorrect on numerous counts and has retracted its positions.
This is way more of a religious/scientific debate than a conservative/liberal one. And there is no reason for it to be a religious debate. The facts are indeed the facts.
Dog gone, remember “peltdown man”
Remember “Nebraska man”?
Remember “manmade global warming”? Oh wait, we’re still debunking that one.
Science soils itself when it steps out of its boundaries.
Lovers of science should jealously guard it from error.
Yours truly,
The Woim
So what to do with scientists that try in vain to produce such “proof” in the future?
It’s forever decided, as far as academic liberals are concerned in this country...you already have the “PROOF” from the algoreacle crowd that this is indeed the tactic from the left when it comes to the hot air cult, do you not?
Okay. How does that advance the discussion?
I agree with your estimate on eventual box office, but that's not going to give anyone a profit.
Exhibitors get $2.4 million of that, but they only made #1100/screen in the first week and they are not going to make up the diff to their costs on popcorn sales.
Distributor get $1.6 mill, which won';t pay for the theater prints.
Of the producers $$ mill, they admit to $3.5 production costs, add advertising, and they are comping people like crazy to go see the film.
Bottom line, before opening the producers said an opening Box Office of $12-15M would be a success - they got less than 3.
Paridel, I regretted typing that snarky remark as soon as my industrious fingers moved to the next keys - I owe you an apology and, actually, the whole worldwide Anglican community!
Yours truly,
The Woim
Science seems to be able to correct mistakes or detect fraud.
In fact, it’s quite good at that. None of those hoaxes were debunked by a pastor, were they?
It bothers me no end that religious conservatives(not to be confused with conservatives that are religious) seem to think that they control the conservative movement and the republican party. You all screwed us with the Huck. Thanks alot. As a group we had to settle for McCain.
I’m going to see the movie, but I’ve already experienced the tactics from the left first hand, with the Georgia ACLU sneaking a letter into the school board here over the summer that if they don’t remove the word “Christmas” from the school’s calendar, they’d be sued.
NO parental input, only the state knows best. OR the lawyers, or the atheists, etc.
It’s the exact same premise...there’s simply to be no debate...not on the hot air cult or bitter God and gun clinging Christians having a voice in science.
Poor tactics or not addressing all their tricks at once is but a distraction, IMO.
While I’m sure there are kooks who want evolution banned, and not the exchange of ideas of both theories, I think the numbers on the left that want ID banned, NOT based on ANYTHING remotely scientific but unfounded fears about proselytizing or some super-theocracy, is just too overwhelming!
He wasn’t blaming Darwin for Nazism, he was blaming Nazis for believing in Darwinism. Marx isn’t accountable for Lenin’s bloodbath, but Lenin is still a fool for believing in Marx. Same sort of thing.
Of course not. The HMS Beagle only spent 5 week in the area. Neither Darwin nor anybody else claimed he observed evolution!
The Galápagos Islands consist of 22 main islands spread over 28,000 square miles.
Charles Darwin found roughly 13 different types of finch populating it, and he went about collecting the new (to him) specimens for later classification. But after his return to England, ornithologist John Gould told him that the finches were not, as Darwin had supposed, members of several widely different families, but all belonged to one family now known as the Geospizinae.
That's when it clicked that the birds became isolated on their individual islands and had adapted to their local environment.
It is the classic example of "Adaptive Radiation", a process of evolution in which variations of a single species fill different niches and eventually become new species.
So he continues to wallow in his own ignorance.
Too bad for him.
His freedoms he now has to spew such ignorance has soooooo very little to do with the advancements of science, or some idea of scientific method; and the only way science is ultimately trashed is by allowing a fearful hate God group define for all what science is or isn’t in this country.
That’s so UN-American as to make one’s head spin!
And to be so arrogant as to say Americans (or westerners) are solely responsible for creating the so-called scientific method....oooops....we’re not ALLOWED to say creation in his world...which no one here can define by concensus anyway...
only further shows how little he knows of science!
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