Posted on 04/15/2008 8:34:19 PM PDT by blam
Vitamin pills 'increase risk of early death'
By Kate Devlin, Medical Correspondent
Last Updated: 12:01am BST 16/04/2008
Popular vitamin supplements taken by millions of people in the hope of improving their health may do no good and could increase the risk of a premature death, researchers report today.
They warn healthy people who take antioxidant supplements, including vitamins A and E, to try to keep diseases such as cancer at bay that they are interfering with their natural body defences and may be increasing their risk of an early death by up to 16 per cent.
Antioxidants, including vitamins A, E, and C are said to mop up free radicals, which cause disease
Researchers at Copenhagen University carried out a review of 67 studies on 230,000 healthy people and found "no convincing evidence" that any of the antioxidants helped to prolong life expectancy. But some "increased mortality".
About 12 million Britons supplement their diets with vitamins and the industry is worth £330 million. But little research has been done on the long-term health implications.
The Department of Health said yesterday that people should try to get the vitamins they need by eating a balanced diet and advised care in taking large doses of supplements.
A spokesman said: "There is a need to exercise caution in the use of high doses of purified supplements of vitamins, including antioxidant vitamins, and minerals. Their impact on long-term health may not have been fully established and they cannot be assumed to be without risk.
"Anyone concerned about their diet should speak to their doctor or dietitian."
Antioxidants, including vitamins A, E, C and beta-carotene and selenium, are said to mop up compounds, called free radicals, which cause disease. It is this action that researchers believe may cause problems with the defence system.
The Danish research, released by the influential Cochrane Library, applied only to synthetic supplements and not to vitamins that occur naturally in vegetables and fruit.
It found that vitamin A supplements increased the risk of death in healthy people by 16 per cent. Taking beta-carotene was linked to a 7 per cent increased risk, while regular users of vitamin E supplements increased the risk of an early death by four per cent.
Although the review found no significant detrimental effect caused by vitamin C, it found no evidence that it helped ward off disease. Millions take it in the hope of avoiding a common cold.
Goran Bjelakovic, who led the review, said: "We could find no evidence to support taking antioxidant supplements to reduce the risk of dying earlier in healthy people or patients with various diseases.
"If anything, people in trial groups given the antioxidants beta-carotene, vitamin A, and vitamin E showed increased rates of mortality."
But Patrick Holford, a nutritionist who has formulated supplements for the company Biocare, said: "Antioxidants are not meant to be magic bullets and should not be expected to undo a lifetime of unhealthy habits.
"When used properly, in combination with a healthy diet full of fruit and vegetables, getting plenty of exercise and not smoking, antioxidant supplements can play an important role in maintaining and promoting overall health."
A spokesman for the Health Supplements Information Service said: "People should get all the vitamins and minerals they need from their diet, but for the millions who are not able to do that, vitamins can be a useful supplement and they should not stop taking them."
However, Catherine Collins, of the British Dietetic Association, said: "This study is deeply worrying and shows that there should be more regulation for vitamins and minerals.
"The public can buy vitamins as easily as sweets. They should be treated in the same way as paracetamol with maximum limits on the dosage."
God is all holy, and God tempts no man.
At the same time, all men are fallen and incapable of choosing righteousness unless and until God first chooses to give that man new ears and new eyes and a new heart and a renewed mind with which to understand the words of God and the power of God in order to know his salvation is by Christ on the cross alone.
That is what the Bible tells us. All your posturing is meaningless in light of Romans 8 and 9, and Ephesians 1 and 2. For the umpteenth time, go back and read the Scriptures.
In his natural state, man is corrupted by the sins of his first father, Adam. God leaves some men in their fallen state (those men remain slaves to sin,) and God graciously redeems other men (those men become slaves to righteousness.)
And this election to salvation is not predicated on anything within the men themselves because ALL men are fallen. God's election in based solely upon His good pleasure and purpose in creating in the first place.
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." -- Titus 3:5-7 "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Justified by grace, and not by works we have done. All by the will and design of the Triune God.
"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." -- Philippians 2:13
"Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee" -- Psalm 65:4
"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth" -- Romans 9:11
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." -- Ephesians 1:4-6 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." -- Isaiah 45:7
Does your Bible have these verses, and what do you think they mean?
To me, it means that some are blessed enough to be elect, and the rest of us slobs find Him some other way, or don’t.
Catholic studies on exorcism have recorded the testimony of demons speaking through the possessed that would indicate that some may be chosen for possession from before birth.
That’s a lot less than biblical proof, but it’s a datapoint. This conflict between Lucifer and God precedes humanity. “A murder from the beginning” was the way Jesus put it.
We know very little, except that His Grace is sufficient, and that everyone is called to the Salvation of Christ, and that this Salvation is perfect. If it is God’s will, then it can be done, and if it isn’t, then it can’t be.
I don’t pretend to know the nature of the conflict, except that we are in the middle.
There's only one way to "find Him," and that is by Him finding us.
"I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine... Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word" -- John 17:9,20"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you." -- John 15:16
"Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee" -- Psalm 65:4
I humbly disagree. You are describing the principle of Election.
Taken to its logical end, it means that some people are born with no possibility of being saved.
No human is beyond redemption, and our choice is required in our own salvation. Without our assent, there’s no love involved. We aren’t little dolls that He chooses to either favor or to condemn. “This doll I will cause to find Me, but this doll I won’t.”
There is no ONE way to find Him. There is ONE way to be SAVED, and that is through Jesus alone, but there is an UNLIMITED number of ways to find Him.
You find me a SINGLE scripture that indicate that there is only ONE way to find Jesus. How we find Christ is personal to each of us, and the process probably started in our childhood.
The one’s you’ve dug up simply say that BLESSED are the ones God elects - Like Paul being blasted off his horse. I think if you interviewed Jonah, however, he might want to clarify for you the notion of ‘blessed’.
Being the elect of God is no picnic on earth I would imagine. You’d be hectored by Lucifer and his demons, and then have to do what God tells you to do on the other end, all the while being STOCK SURE that God not only EXISTS, but that the sooner you die, the sooner you get to be with him.
You’d be like one of those poor dogs balancing a dog biscuit on their noses, waiting for your master to tell you when you could eat it. The treat just staring you in the face all the while.
Going back to the point, BLESSED are the elect, because they have no doubt. Even Jesus had doubt about the duty he had to fulfill, and begged His Father to take it from Him. The elect are blessed because of the palpable connection they have with God, not because life becomes a bowl of cherries.
If there were only ONE way to find Him, then what would be the point of evangelism? If God calls those who He wants, then they are going to find Him regardless.
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Oh no you don't You don't get to gloss/skip over that. You are trapped. You can't go any further until you explain HOW ON EARTH man fell WITHOUT a free will. Please do explain to one and all why your Holy God created a man who would sin. It can't be done without either twisting and contorting worse than a pretzel or admitting that man does have a free will to choose God's offer of salvation.
Another point that is completely ignored/glossed over because, it BLOWS A MONSTER SIZE HOLE in this silly theology.
The perspective you're pushing is blatant humanism. Sorry. It's just not Scriptural.
And I didn't "dig up" those Scriptures. I read them, as you can, too.
No human is beyond redemption
That's not what the Bible says. Was Judas "beyond redemption?" Was there a chance Judas could have played nice and not betrayed the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world?"
Nope. It was all part of God's plan for His creation, having "declared the end from the beginning." One way or another, everything in life has been purposed by His good pleasure alone, for His glory and the welfare of His family.
Since none of us knows the names of the elect but God, we preach the Gospel to all men, confident that those who are His will be given new eyes and new ears in order to know their salvation is by Christ alone. He will lose none of them.
Apparently, Judas was not among His sheep.
"But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him." -- John 6:64
"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." -- John 17:12
(quoting Martin Luther) Have I not put on record in many books that I am talking about necessity of immutability? I know that the Father begets willingly, and that Judas betrayed Christ willingly. My point is that this act of the will in Judas was certainly and infallibly bound to take place, if God foreknew it. That is to say (if my meaning is not yet grasped), I distinguish two necessities: one I call necessity of force (necessitatem violentam), referring to action; the other I call necessity of infallibility (necessitatem infallibilem), referring to time. Let him who hears me understand that I am speaking of the latter, not the former; that is, I am not discussing whether Judas became a traitor willingly or unwillingly, but whether it was infallibly bound to come to pass that Judas should willingly betray Christ at a time predetermined by God
our choice is required in our own salvation
The only "requirement" for salvation is Christ's sacrifice on the cross. Period. Any of us who hopes to add to His "paid-in-full" redemption is striving in vain.
"For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive?" -- 1 Corinthians 4:7
Do you actually believe Adam was the same before the fall as after the fall?
Both believe man is capable of choosing righteousness and thus God is in man's debt and must repay man's good choice with salvation.
Both perspectives are based on works, and not on God's unmerited, free mercy.
As I pointed out to you (and you could not/did not respond), that is one wretched way to go through life, NEVER, EVER having any assurance whatsoever that you are one of the "special ones". And there is no way you could know, according to you.
confident that those who are His will be given new eyes and new ears in order to know their salvation is by Christ alone.
By the way, there have been many who have had the understanding that Jesus was the only way to Salvation but rejected that way. That's a hard fact.
Are you personally going to heaven? Yes or No? According to your dogma, you don't know.
You completely dodged the question. God said He can not sin. Do you believe that? Doesn't it strike you (as it does most of us) as bizarre that God would create mankind (Adam and Eve) without free wills, PURPOSELY making them SIN, just so he would then have an excuse to sacrifice His Son to save them? That is just so screwy and bizarre.
Well, at least we agree in the salvation of Christ. You’re more willing to step out on a limb and ‘know’ how predestination comports with the notion of free will.
Notice Luther was referring to the ACT of Judas, and not necessarily Judas himself. Judas committed the act. Is it possible that Jesus knew the act would occur, but only God knew which one?
Jesus certainly held up the possibility of different outcomes - he begged the Father to take the cup of suffering away from Jesus.
Peter denied Jesus three time in public. Jesus Himself said that anyone who denies knowing Him in public, will deny knowing you before His Father. You think Peter’s roasting alongside Judas at this point?
I’m a sheep. I know I’m saved. What I possess doubts about is the nature and mechanism of the struggle between Lucifer and God.
God bless you for not having those doubts, but the scriptures you sight still leave open myriad interpretations.
As for my views amounting to humanism, Jesus was a big believer in humanism. So much so that Lucifer exists ineffably beyond the Love of God, but linked to humanity until God chooses otherwise, perhaps forever.
To be honest, I only know of Secular Humanism, and I’m not an adherent.
Humanism, our connection with God - the definition of Love, and the sanctity that comes in being in the presence of Love; I don’t understand it, but I benefit from it. I know that to be saved is to exist in the presence of Love with God forever. Hell may be many things, but one thing for sure is that you live outside of love - in a place completely devoid of it.
I don’t know why God chose to make humans in the first place, but I am SURE that Lucifer was a murderer from the beginning. The VERY beginning - before humans. What does that even mean? Murder, the concept of it, predating humanity.
I’m comfortable not knowing, and not seeing what the elect saw and see every day. I forget where I read the passage, but it referred to the presence of demons on earth, “And if truly you could perceive their shapes in waking, the very number of them is such that it would blot the daylight.”
I pray daily that I may have the ears to hear God’s will, the mind to understand it, and the courage to carry it out. I pray this for you too, as you certainly have the zeal and courage to know things that scare me to the quick of my being.
***You can’t go any further until you explain HOW ON EARTH man fell WITHOUT a free will.***
Adam and eve had the free will to choose either. They choose sin. Our free will is now corrupted.
Nope sorry, try again! That does fly since one of the scripture verses you guys use shoots that down hard.
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Now last time I checked my nifty world history wall chart, the creation of Adam+Eve came AFTER the foundation of the world. Plus, where on earth does it say anywhere in scripture that Adam+Eve had free wills? Where?
That is a verse about children of god being elected. Adam and eve died spiritually that day. Keep reading Ephesians through chapter two and see how we were dead as well.
The question was “Where in scripture does it say Adam+Eve had free wills?” I hope I don’t get crickets chirping on this one...
Where does Scripture say any of us have a free will from a soteriological perspective?
No, it is not possible. Unless, of course, you are not a Trinitarian Christian.
Jesus certainly held up the possibility of different outcomes - he begged the Father to take the cup of suffering away from Jesus.
Christ's suffering was His humanity in that He suffered for our sins. There was no possibility for any other outcome since Christ is the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
Peter denied Jesus three time in public. Jesus Himself said that anyone who denies knowing Him in public, will deny knowing you before His Father. You think Peter’s roasting alongside Judas at this point?
Peter is saved just like every Christian is saved -- by grace through faith in Christ's work on the cross. None of us is saved by our own efforts.
As for my views amounting to humanism, Jesus was a big believer in humanism.
lol. No Jesus was not a believer in humanism. Humanism is believing men and God are on the same footing, with God owing men salvation because they've had the good sense to believe in Christ.
That's not what the Bible teaches us. Grace is what saves us, and grace is unmerited, or else it would be debt. (Romans 4)
Humanism, our connection with God
Humanism is not our "connection with God. Christ is our connection with God. That's pretty basic. (Colossians 1:16-17)
the sanctity that comes in being in the presence of Love
We are not sanctified by being in the presence of love, or else Judas would have been sanctified. We are sanctified by the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
I don’t know why God chose to make humans in the first place
Q. 1. What is the chief end of man?
A. Man’s chief end is to glorify God,[1] and to enjoy him forever.[2]
I’m comfortable not knowing, and not seeing what the elect saw and see every day.
I don't understand your dividing the "elect" from God's family who have been saved by grace through faith in Christ. They are one and the same thing. Is that some RCC doctrine?
As for comfort, pray for a renewed mind. Some things are known only to God, but a great many Godly truths are made available to us by the Holy Spirit illuminating the Scriptures. If God so wills.
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." -- Titus 3:5-7"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
God sinning and God permitting sin are two completely different things.
I have perfect assurance of my salvation. I know whom I have believed. The words Christ spoke are "spirit and life" for those who are called according to His purpose.
Are you personally going to heaven?
Yes, I believe I am going to heaven because God has given me His grace through faith that Jesus Christ has paid-in-full for every sin I have ever committed or will ever commit.
All according to God's holy word.
That's why it's called "mercy" and not "debt."
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