Posted on 04/15/2008 10:27:22 AM PDT by Snickering Hound
ELDORADO — Mothers separated from their children as part of a wide-ranging abuse investigation within a polygamist retreat accuse state officials of misleading them before taking their offspring into custody.
Authorities raided the sect's ranch more than a week ago in response to allegations that underage girls were forced to marry older men. Women and children from the secretive community were taken to a West Texas fort-turned-museum and a rodeo pavilion, but on Monday officials began separating women and some of their offspring without warning, members of the sect said.
While some women and children were taken from the shelters to the nearby San Angelo Coliseum, other women were allowed to return to the ranch — but only those who were childless or had children under the age of 5.
About three dozen of the women who returned to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints ranch spoke out Monday, after 11 days in temporary shelters. They said in interviews that police surrounded them Monday and gave them a choice between returning home, or relocating to a women's shelter.
"It just feels like someone is trying to hurt us," said Paula, 38, who like other members of the sect declined to give her full name. "I do not understand how they can do this when they don't have a for sure knowledge that anyone has abused these children."
Marissa Gonzales, a spokeswoman for the Department of Family and Protective Services, said the move was a typical procedure taken by the agency.
"It is not the normal practice to allow parents to accompany the child when an abuse allegation is made," Gonzales said.
Brenda, a 37-year-old mother of two teenage boys, said the women were threatened with arrest if they resisted the court order. Previously, the women had been told they would stay with the children at least until Thursday, when a custody hearing is scheduled, she said.
A call to CPS for comment late Monday on the women's claims was not immediately returned.
CPS's closing of the shelters came a day after three mothers from the ranch petitioned Gov. Rick Perry to inspect the shelters to see firsthand how families were being treated. The women said the living conditions were cramped and that some of the children had become sick.
About 20 children were recovering from a mild case of chicken pox, said Dr. Sandra Guerra-Cantu with the state Health Department.
Perry spokesman Robert Black said the governor did not believe the children were being housed in poor conditions at the West Texas fort.
"Let's be honest here, this is not the Ritz," Black said. But he called the accommodations "clean and neat."
CPS said officials have been planning the move for a week but that the coliseum was unavailable earlier. About two dozen teenage boys were moved to a facility outside San Angelo with the judge's permission, CPS said. The location was not released.
The state is accusing the sect of physically and sexually abusing the youngsters and wants to strip their parents of custody and place the children in foster care or put them up for adoption. The sheer size of the case was an obstacle.
"Quite frankly, I'm not sure what we're going to do," state District Judge Barbara Walther said after a conference that included three to four dozen attorneys either representing or hoping to represent youngsters.
Brenda and others were critical of CPS, saying the agency misled them as to what was to happen Monday, weren't told why the children were removed from the compound and given inaccurate messages about opportunities to meet attorneys.
"We got to where we said, 'We cannot believe a word you say. We cannot trust you,'" she said.
Officials said the investigation began with a call from a young girl who has yet to be located by CPS. The women in the sect said they suspect she may be a bitter ex-member of the church.
The FLDS practice polygamy in arranged marriages, sometimes between underage girls and older men. The group has thousands of followers in two side-by-side towns in Arizona and Utah.
The church has repeatedly fought because of its lifestyle before. Men, women and children have been swept up in raids that took place in 1935, 1944 and 1953.
"It's been all through history, " said Brenda, the mother of two. "We were just here trying to live a peaceful, happy, sweet life. We don't understand why we can't do this freely."
Maybe.
These people take pride in *bleeding the beast*. Depends on who's willing to testify. Also depends on if they've falsified birth records or are collecting benefits for children who have died.
Like someone on another thread has said, Satan is smart.
I realize that there's a lot of technicalities and maybe they will get off on those, but that's no reason not to try. They got the leader some time ago for rape and allegedly one of the other leaders is a registered sex offender.
Should we just sit by and not do anything because there might be some technicality they can get off on.?
You know, if these women and girls were free to leave whenever they chose, I doubt there would be the outrage.
If girls under the age of 16 weren't being married off to and basically raped by 50 year old men, there wouldn't likely be the outrage.
If infants were not water tortured, if children were not traded amongst adults like trading cards, if children were not beaten to force their mothers compliance, if they didn't live a life of virtual slavery, if they were free to exercise their rights as citizens of this country,...
What would you suggest be done?
Isn’t she the same one posing, hugging a post with tears streaming down her cheeks?
Yup.
LOL. I am not dumb enough to ever be one of those women. You see I have a brain and can spot BS a mile away. That is what that cult is. Pure bull***t. To believe that stuff you have to be a bit dim or you have to be brainwashed at a young age.
Its easy for the men to believe. They spout a woody and its a sign from the Lord God Almighty himself!
As for evidence, the women have been asked if there are young girls who are pregnant and they refuse to answer. Of course there are dimwitted freepers who can't see that the answer to that question is yes. I have knowledge about this cult simply for that fact that I was curious as to how such ugly old men could convince many young girls to hop into the sack with them. I now know why.
If you can get them young enough you can convince them of anything, including what their eternal end will be if they don't comply.
As your leader says, "stay sweet!"
If she had cried and blew her nose on her sleeve instead of a tissue what would your comment be?
Can you bear more pictures of sobbing women?
Check out the picture gallery that accompanies this story.
I’d post the pictures but I don’t know how.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695270583,00.html
Notice how all the women tend to do their weeping facing the camera.
I must say I have NOT been following this saga closely, but last night flipping through channels I caught a 'mom' wanting her children back. I could not figure out why she left her children in the first place. Then I saw footage of women and children being loaded up like cattle and it occurred to me why didn't they take the men and leave the women and children at home.
The only thing that will stand is statutory rape ie "marriage" under age 16 regardless of parental consent. Other than that, we can't do anything ie it's up to the cult members to get out.
Take the FLDS in context - how many were potentially harmed? 400 max? What about Obama's 'black liberation theology' - how many countless crime victims can trace back the criminals' motivation from an ingrained sense of rage & entitlement? What about muzzies who silently condone the jihadis? How many millions are victims of this ideology?
The US can only establish basic guidelines; any further, and we're no different from any of totalitarian state.
Chuckle. I’ve questioned the Constitutionally of the raid for the past couple of days.
For that I’m now a confirmed pervert. You are about to be named the same.
Come on! Admit it! you LIKE the idea of little girls being forced by older men.
ADMIT IT!
LOL! I can see this is might get interesting.
A pervert is one who perverts justice in pursuit of their hysteria.
I think you hit the nail on the head, referring to the large number of law enforcement and government officials who are Mormons themselves in some of those communities where polygamy has been ongoing for a number of generations.
I suspect for a number of years a policy of live and let live had been accepted in those communities.
Every 5-10 years some outside authority has to step in to enforce the law to keep it in check.
The way I understand it, there is one older geezer in the LDS heirarchy today who isn’t accepting the live and let live philosophy and felt the FLDS groups were giving the rest of LDS a bad name, so wanted to see them disbanded.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there are more powerful folks in the LDS community pushing this effort to clamp down on polygamy after Mitt Romney attracted attention to LDS recently.
Have at it. There as legions of Freepers who don’t seem to care a wit that this thing could blow up and destroy any case they might have, and worse, it could very well be eroding the very freedoms that allow us to live a citizens instead of slaves.
Where is it implied slavery is a sin?
Lots of talk of spiritual bondage and somewhere Paul tells someone to welcome a “new believer released from his spiritual bondage the same as if he were released from human bondage”
that’s about it.....in this PC world we live in today we’d like to rewrite the Bible too while we’re at it.
slavery was not on much of anyone’s to-do list 2000 years ago as far as a “sin”
Hebrews kept slaves same as anybody else that could afford them.
And you know this how?
Sources please?
So you’d rather let them be physically raped?
What’s your connection to this cult again that you defend pedophilia, rape, child abuse, water torturing infants, brainwashing,...?
Or maybe not.
This is a Utah operation:
"The Kingstons aren't in the news as much these days, but back in the late 90's the family definitely was. And Shurtleff now confirms that a year and a half ago, 80 warrants had been issued by the courts and that he was "gearing up" to serve them. Shurtleff said, "We considered going in a similar, swap type - I guess for lack of a better word - operation into a church meeting and bar the doors and start collecting evidence."
Shurtleff says the plan was to take dozens and dozens of DNA swabs from the Kingston family. According to the attorney general, the goal of this raid was to try and determine if any acts of incest had been committed.
But in the end, Shurtleff decided against a Texas-style raid. Although, in talking about it, it almost seems like Utah's Attorney General sometimes wonders...what if?
"We elected not to do that to try and work with their attorney. And, of course, the result of that was all our subjects disappeared, our targets disappeared and we didn't get the warrants served like we hoped to do," said Shurtleff."
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