Posted on 04/15/2008 10:27:22 AM PDT by Snickering Hound
ELDORADO — Mothers separated from their children as part of a wide-ranging abuse investigation within a polygamist retreat accuse state officials of misleading them before taking their offspring into custody.
Authorities raided the sect's ranch more than a week ago in response to allegations that underage girls were forced to marry older men. Women and children from the secretive community were taken to a West Texas fort-turned-museum and a rodeo pavilion, but on Monday officials began separating women and some of their offspring without warning, members of the sect said.
While some women and children were taken from the shelters to the nearby San Angelo Coliseum, other women were allowed to return to the ranch — but only those who were childless or had children under the age of 5.
About three dozen of the women who returned to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints ranch spoke out Monday, after 11 days in temporary shelters. They said in interviews that police surrounded them Monday and gave them a choice between returning home, or relocating to a women's shelter.
"It just feels like someone is trying to hurt us," said Paula, 38, who like other members of the sect declined to give her full name. "I do not understand how they can do this when they don't have a for sure knowledge that anyone has abused these children."
Marissa Gonzales, a spokeswoman for the Department of Family and Protective Services, said the move was a typical procedure taken by the agency.
"It is not the normal practice to allow parents to accompany the child when an abuse allegation is made," Gonzales said.
Brenda, a 37-year-old mother of two teenage boys, said the women were threatened with arrest if they resisted the court order. Previously, the women had been told they would stay with the children at least until Thursday, when a custody hearing is scheduled, she said.
A call to CPS for comment late Monday on the women's claims was not immediately returned.
CPS's closing of the shelters came a day after three mothers from the ranch petitioned Gov. Rick Perry to inspect the shelters to see firsthand how families were being treated. The women said the living conditions were cramped and that some of the children had become sick.
About 20 children were recovering from a mild case of chicken pox, said Dr. Sandra Guerra-Cantu with the state Health Department.
Perry spokesman Robert Black said the governor did not believe the children were being housed in poor conditions at the West Texas fort.
"Let's be honest here, this is not the Ritz," Black said. But he called the accommodations "clean and neat."
CPS said officials have been planning the move for a week but that the coliseum was unavailable earlier. About two dozen teenage boys were moved to a facility outside San Angelo with the judge's permission, CPS said. The location was not released.
The state is accusing the sect of physically and sexually abusing the youngsters and wants to strip their parents of custody and place the children in foster care or put them up for adoption. The sheer size of the case was an obstacle.
"Quite frankly, I'm not sure what we're going to do," state District Judge Barbara Walther said after a conference that included three to four dozen attorneys either representing or hoping to represent youngsters.
Brenda and others were critical of CPS, saying the agency misled them as to what was to happen Monday, weren't told why the children were removed from the compound and given inaccurate messages about opportunities to meet attorneys.
"We got to where we said, 'We cannot believe a word you say. We cannot trust you,'" she said.
Officials said the investigation began with a call from a young girl who has yet to be located by CPS. The women in the sect said they suspect she may be a bitter ex-member of the church.
The FLDS practice polygamy in arranged marriages, sometimes between underage girls and older men. The group has thousands of followers in two side-by-side towns in Arizona and Utah.
The church has repeatedly fought because of its lifestyle before. Men, women and children have been swept up in raids that took place in 1935, 1944 and 1953.
"It's been all through history, " said Brenda, the mother of two. "We were just here trying to live a peaceful, happy, sweet life. We don't understand why we can't do this freely."
Adults being the operative word.
Could she be DEAD???I've honestly wondered about that myself....there is that cemetery filled with children they reported. The plot thickens....
What has me wondering this are three things mentioned in Carolyn Jessop's book:
Makes me wonder, and fear other shoes that might drop.
The Boys where are the Boys not very many came out of YFZ??? Who is buried in these graves?
So many questions??
These FLDS leaders are PERVS.
I think that when it is shown that a man has been “married” to an underage girl, he should be prosecuted.
With some of the groups in Utah, law enforcement has managed to convince them to give up on the underage “marriages.” When they do that, and they don’t purport to have state sanctioned marriages, they aren’t committing bigamy, and there’s no evidence of welfare fraud, the state leaves them alone. They don’t approve, but they aren’t going to go in and break up these relationships anymore than they are going to go in and break up all “shack up” relationships.
Not all marriages among polygamists are to underage girls. Some girls do not marry until they are of age. And some are legally married, in the sense that do not “marry” a man who already has a wife.
To the FIP ping list.
This is a long video recording of a Fundamentalist Mormon women explaining Polygamy and how it relates to the history of Mormonism. It is 30 minutes long, but will shed much light on information regarding the practices and belief in Polygamy
http://www.mrm.org/multimedia/video/interview-mormon-fundamentalist/part-1-early-lds-church-polygamy
I don't really even want to think about that! I think it's more than a reasonable explanation of where the young anonymous caller went.....((((I feel sick))))
bookmark to watch the video later....
How do you propose they be prosecuted unless it is investigated?
Those defenders are unhinged.
It would be nice to have more concise and verifiable information on what really went on.
Polygamy on it's surface does not bother me so much, it's not for me....I don't think I could handle all those women bitching and hollering for too long but it's the underside stuff we hear about like sex too young and boys being abandoned that bothers me.
Does anyone really know?
It also bothers me knowing personally how heavy handed the State and Feds can be and how yes, they do abuse their power.
Sure can't expect fair treatment on this from the media.
and they did all this based on the whispered testimony from one girl they now can't find?
should all those kids be torn from their mothers just on this?
I think not.
Don't forget, the police and media and lawmakers all have a political stake in this even if the polygamists are dead to right wrong up to their eyeballs....same as Waco.
what a damned mess
“You’re of the ‘state is lying, nothing negative about this group is true’ mindset.”
I find much about this group (and other Mormons) reprehensible, but after the outright lies about Randy Weaver and the folks at Waco, I’m not about to swallow the State’s story without corroboration!
“Well, I happen to believe that I know otherwise.”
That’s what I want you to explain. I am not closed-minded, if you have evidence besides that which has been released thus far, please enlighten all of us skeptics.
Great points.
Sadly they will be lost on most Mormons. You see they must defend polygamy as ordained by God.
In fact it has been called beautiful and moral by several of them.
The polygamists aren’t in a good mood in Colorado City.
They chased a CNN reporter out of town. He was only able to do his reporting on the outside the town limit.
nor does the Bible treat them as such.
Slavery...barely mentioned and never condemned...it was simply a way of life for many then and beat being killed after defeat/conquest
Murder...wholly condemned...see the tablets.
Polygamy....sort of accepted to some degree though much of the Bible is devoted in matrimony as between one man and one woman.
Murder as opposed to justifiable killing is consistently condemned in the Bible.
You have it wrong.
Carolyn was the 4th wife. Kathleen the 5th.
To think you would take the word of a woman who would let her 16 year old daughter be diddled by men twice her age shows your character.
And not in a good way.
Carolyn Jessop should have her face on a stamp! She protected her children.
But you and your ilk deem her to be bitter.
Placemark
Yes you are correct. Polygamy, slavery and murder are not the same.
My point is that they are all in the Bible. It is clear that murder is a sin. It is implied that slavery and polygamy are sins.
The cult separates the children from their mothers. Why no condemnation of them?
This cult does everything the government is being criticized for and to a far worse degree and all we hear are cries of how bad the government is and how it should leave them alone. All we hear is *Send them back. Reunite them with their families.*
Why?
When there are individual crimes and evidence, they are prosecuted....case links please. When there are consenting adults living together in polygamous relationships, they are not prosecuted. ....why? Is it legal in Utah?
As someone on another thread said, you could go into any housing project in the US and find 12 and 13 year olds having sex and having babies, with the “baby daddies” wandering around impregnating at will and taking no responsibility.......which has nothing to do with the institutionalized coercion and rape of the FLDS children.....
Does that mean the state can raid the place at will and take all the children?
Child rape is prosecuted every day. The state agencies remove children from homes every day for abuse. There aren't a whole bunch of people, until NOW, castigating state agencies and law enforcement for protecting these children.
“This cult does everything the government is being criticized for and to a far worse degree...”
As I’ve been asking others of your opinion:
“WHAT IS YOUR EVIDENCE???”
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