Posted on 04/09/2008 9:33:38 AM PDT by Domandred
I changed my mind about no comments.
First warrant was wrong.
The guy named in the first warrant was not at the compound, he was in Arizona, but authorities didn’t try to get him there.
The first warrant gave them an in to the compound to get a second warrant.
If this was anyone but the FLDS people would probably be up in arms about 4th Amendment and illegal search and seizures. Not to mention various choice words about Social Services.
no one up in arms about the children being raped there, though, huh????
I don't know what the normal procedure for obtaining warrants is, but it seems incredible to me that a document as important as a search warrant wouldn't have the name of the requesting officer on it. Perhaps it's document some other way, and if so, that would cover my concern here.
Agreed and well stated. This thread will most likely end up ignoring the "poisonous fruit" and argue the differences between religious doctrines.
So it’s okay to throw out the 4th Amendment when children are being raped?
Lets say your neighbor who goes to your church is under suspicion for child abuse. Does that make it okay for the authorities to take YOUR kids and search YOUR house as well as your neighbor’s because you go to the same church?
It’s for the children after all, and you do go to the same church and live next door so you might just also be a child abuser because your neighbor is.
If improper procedure can be used against people we don’t like, they can also be used against people we do like.
It is important to make sure that proper procedures are used for a number of reasons. For instance, do you want someone to get off on a technicality because someone didn’t adhere to strict guidelines concering warrants? I don’t.
That's a good point too.
I'll agree that there was most likely various child abuse issues going on in the compound. A good lawyer however will chew the crap out of the warrants and child abusers will walk because of the way this raid was handled.
Seems to me some of you are out there to protect your LDS brethren, and could give a rats @$$ about the kids being raped in the compound. Of course no one wants to see the wrong people arrested.
PS my neighbor who goes to my church does not live in a cult compound.
I’m not sure of that yet. Still, as a general rule, strict guidelines need to be adhered to. It protects the case and all parties concerned.
Many a good case has been thrown out due to improper procedures. In some instances the rulings have been absurd. Still, you don’t give a guy an opening. And you don’t betray the implied trust a victim has in the system, by soiling their case.
I am not buying the story about the girl either. They can not find her for 4 days and now all of a sudden this Joni Holm who has been right there all along suddenly knows the real story BUT they still can't locates her.
" But Joni Holm, who has helped children leave the FLDS, said the teenager who called officials on March 29 and 30 and claimed she was abused is married to a different, younger man.
Ok, now it is definitely the wrong guy on the warrant and despite having been right under their nose for all this time Joni never thought to tell them where "the teenager who called" is staying.
This one just might go south big time for the LEO.
Except if your name if Kathryn Johnston, then you just get to bleed out on the living room floor while the 3 cops plant drugs to cover their botched drug raid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston
On April 26, 2007, Smith and Junnier pleaded guilty to manslaughter, violation of oath, criminal solicitation, and making false statements. Smith additionally pleaded guilty to perjury. Furthermore, the federal probe into the police department revealed that Atlanta police routinely lied to obtain search warrants, including often falsifying affidavits.
To the contrary. If the kids were being raped then the perpetrators might walk because the "law enforcers" didn't give a rats a$$ about the kids either if they had done their job the right way.
Does that describe the situation better?
I definitely agree.
Also...removing 419 children from their mothers and fathers is a DRASTIC action to be taken, and emotionally very traumatic to these kids. Surely not all of those 419 children were abused.
However,,,In following these polygamy stories, I am concerned that women and young girls are held in these homes against their will. Also, when women do choose to leave these polygamous households, am I correct that they often lose custody of their children?
Agreed and well stated. This thread will most likely end up ignoring the “poisonous fruit” and argue the differences between religious doctrines.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sad but true.
Also, it bothers me that 419 children have been ripped from their families on the basis of one 16 yr old girl’s report.
I **seriously** doubt the 419 children are abused, but I do know that likely 419 children are horrendously emotional bereft to be snatched from their mothers and fathers. Poor kids! I call that government child abuse!
The FLDS are NOT my LDS brethren. I am protecting US Citizens from illegal search and seizure. I could care less what their religion is.
, and could give a rats @$$ about the kids being raped in the compound.
Yes I do care, but I also care that the authorities get the RIGHT people, and not everyone else just because they happen to be affiliated by religion.
Of course no one wants to see the wrong people arrested.
But it's okay to arrest everyone else in the process who happens to be affiliated with the wrong people in your book?
PS my neighbor who goes to my church does not live in a cult compound.
Yea but how much longer until it doesn't matter if your in a compound or not? Just because you don't like someone doesn't mean you can ignore search and seizure laws, proper warrants, and the Constitution and when dealing with them.
You can let your hatred of the LDS church cloud your judgement all you want. I probably dislike the FLDS church probably more then you dislike the LDS church, but that doesn't change my love for the laws of the land and the Constitution.
Once we start ignoring them for one group, then eventually we start ignoring them for others too.
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