Posted on 03/21/2008 1:23:44 PM PDT by WesternCulture
"European bankers and the dollar holocaust"
OK, this article isn't finished yet, but I was thinking like "why not publish what I've written so far beforehand, the topic is a highly important one and people here on Free Republic aren't whiners, sure they'll forgive me for saving this draft for later forum abuse and instead I could go treat my sore European intellect to some Absolut and b-movies".
I'm on holiday, actually.
The unfinished article (please comment!!):
"Personally, I'm not born of banking stock.
My forebears here in Sweden (yes, I am, again, trying to write an article in English although it isn't my first language - must be all this Swedish Påskbrygd/Easter brew!) were supervisors and foremen of different sorts, simple soldiers and - more recently - hard working managers who gave up their personal lives as family men in order to provide such an existence for thousands of others laborers.
My parents were (probably) the first in these lines of my ancestry to achieve academic success. I am a failure in many ways myself (at least, I'm a lousy rapper), but I still own a nice Volvo and a well functioning intellect.
That's where I'm coming from. Not impressive perhaps, but still, I happen to “think I know how bankers think" or sooner, "react". I don’t read minds, but I’ve read Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli - and some annual reports of our times (impressive figures, pitiful writings - in my country, Sweden, these people would’ve been burnt by the stake at slow fire for having authored such feeble conjurations some 300 years ago, these magnificent corporations deserve better introductions).
Bankers are not gamblers or adventurers. Economic history tells of few bankers who have abandoned their profession in order to become high sea pirates and such things.
Pirates are not a thing of the past actually and neither are bankers trying to run the world, but anyhow, let's go back in time.
One hundred years ago, around 1908, the financial elite of Europe ruled the world. Or sooner, different groupings of that elite were engaged in fierce competition over world dominance, whilst failing to understand their own ability to frustrate Europe's (and simultaneously their own) leading position in the field of global affairs.
WWI laid Europe waste and it also destroyed many happy homes in other continents (something I, as a European, will never forget).
Despite of this, the European insanity went on. Instead of restoring the country's economy and making proper use of the young, well educated, ambitious population of Germany, Hitler lured a great nation into becoming a brainwashed community of raiders. He was applauded by the likes of Friedrich (Fritz) "I paid Hitler" Thyssen and pampered by appeasers like Chamberlain.
I'm not trying to say that the leading European elite in general are, or ever were, pro-nazi. But just have a quick look at a person like Montagu Norman, head of Bank of England from 1920 to 1944 and close personal friend of Hjalmar Schacht.
Norman was a leading European banker who certainly deserved the epithet "the best ally Nazism ever had". Without the financial support of Bank of England, the - often overestimated - economic recovery Germany experienced during the period between Hitler's seizure of power and the outbreak of WWII would probably never have taken place. Norman was probably not a Nazi himself, but even highly intelligent people often go too far in their efforts of trying to bridle evil.
There's much to be said about a European banker like Norman and his time. From Wikipedia:
"Norman's exact role and responsibility as director of the BIS during the time when ₤6,000,000 of Czechoslovak gold held in the Bank of England was transferred to the German Reichsbank in 1939, is yet to be determined."
We all know the end of this story. Again, I wish to express my sympathy with families all over the world who became victims of this tragedy, rooted in European inability of making the most out of the multitude of innumerable and highly precious gifts destiny has bestowed upon our busy, ever-changing continent. In WWII, my family got away easy; a relative of mine got shot in Finland during the Winter War while fighting Stalin, but survived."
(TO BE CONTINUED)
Europeans aren’t pre-disposed toward nazism but they are pre-disposed toward highly centralized government. That may manifest itself in any number of ways historically. Socialism of various kinds, fascisms of various kinds and various levels of intrusiveness, and obviously the monarchies that preceded the modern era.
Europe has never been fertile ground for classic liberalism, de-centralized and distributed power except as imposed by necessity, they seem forever to gravitate toward ever more centralized solutions.
I may be wrong, but thats my observation.
“Europeans aren’t pre-disposed toward nazism but they are pre-disposed toward highly centralized government.”
the former communists countries of eastern europe are now less centralized than we are - just check tax rates and the prevalence of vat taxes in lieu of income taxes.
thats why they are growing at 7,8,9%
The Medici were a pretty rowdy bunch.
Ah Shucks! Let's not forget the Borgias....Both contributed some really XXXXX Popes in their day............
Cool.
And a high percentage of Americans are driving us toward ever more centralized government here. They've forgotten what it was that made us what we were. Fortunately there are still enough pirates and entrepreneurs and techno-geeks and ornery stubborn souls among us to keep the pot stirring.
“I may be wrong, but thats my observation.”
- Thanks for commenting.
To me, your conclusions seem intelligent and also relevant.
Europe is like an alcoholic.
It has made severe mistakes, but if provided support by real friends, it could rise again.
Real civilization could again prosper!
There will be another Beethoven!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_van_Beethoven
Europe and the USA is the tale of two brothers.
The American brother went out into the world to make his fortune and did so beyond anyones possible imagination.
The European brother told the other brother failure was inevitable away from home and he should focus on staying home and doing the same thing as always.
Possiblity vs stagnation.
Has not changed, and the europeans resent it.
As far as I know the Borgias weren’t bankers. They were Spanish aristocrats.
Don’t misunderstand me.
There is much in Europe to admire, it is a lovely place with lovely people.
But what makes any country what it is, is always and forever rooted in the moral sensibilities of its people. To the degree that this moral sense is fostered and encouraged, to the degree that families are held sacred, a country’s beauty grows and shines.
In the end, that is what matters, not so much the governing philosophy or the political structures of a country.
It is my opinion that a less-centralized structure tends to encourage self-reliance among individuals and families, and that this self-reliance encourages this moral quality. To be clear, the capacity for self-government is a moral quality. Without this moral sense, self-government isn’t possible. But it is this moral quality itself that makes a people who and what they are, not so much the political structures that rise out of it.
There is a strong tendency for people to search out the perfect political structures that will make goodness unnecessary, but they can never achieve that purpose. They can occasionally defeat goodness, and along with it whatever is beautiful about a people, but they can never make it unnecessary.
“Don’t misunderstand me.”
- I won’t. You appear to be a nice and intelligent person, just like most of the members of this forum! I hope you don’t misunderstand ME, fellow freeper:D
“It is my opinion that a less-centralized structure tends to encourage self-reliance among individuals and families, and that this self-reliance encourages this moral quality.
To be clear, the capacity for self-government is a moral quality. Without this moral sense, self-government isn’t possible.”
- One thing I absolutely agree with is that “..the capacity for self-government is a moral quality”.
Well put.
Furthermore, I think you and I agree that the success of a nation always is a matter of the combined effect of a multitude of successful individuals and that things like work ethics, family values, Capitalism, liberty and respect for law and order is the way to go for each and every nation of today.
However, I think there are several societies that have been BOTH centralized and successful in history. Japan is a good example.
My country, Sweden, is, in many ways, a very centralized country (although we are a democracy of course). Yet, it would be difficult to deny that Sweden and the other Scandinavian countries have been successful like few other nations over a large span of years. Among other things, the performance of Sweden in the area of economic growth has been more or less unparallelled since 1870. Japan could compete - until the early 1990s.
Again, I promise that I’m not getting you wrong. But in general, many advocates of traditional American values, like the “Small Government-philosophy”, tend to ignore certain parts of reality that strongly disagree with their theories. I think there are certain areas where you and I disagree, but in my eyes this is something positive. I hate debating with people who totally agree with me:D
I am a Conservative, but since long I’ve been aware that what Americans call Conservative beliefs isn’t exactly the same thing as the ideology most Swedish/Scandinavian Conservatives embrace. Scandinavians are much more in favor of a “strong” state and a “strong” government than Americans are.
For long, there has been a conflict between The American Way and The Swedish(/Scandinavian) Model. Americans and Scandinavians share the trait of feeling superior and we both like to be looked up upon (even more than other people do) - and personally, I’d like to say that Scandinavia as well as the US by all means ARE very impressive and well functioning parts of the world!
In my eyes, this controversy is something interesting and even inspiring, at least as long as we maintain a sincere and open attitude to the actual subject, namely which societal concept that ought to be viewed as a model to others and refrain from mud-throwing.
Various journalists, economists, scholars and other “experts” have often tried to convince their audiences that the “Socialist” Nordic countries are “doomed”.
I beg to differ and to begin with, we are not Socialists, our prosperity is the result of Capitalism, not Socialism. IKEA, Ericsson, Nokia and Volvo etc, etc has nothing to do with Marx and Lenin.
Time after time, the high tax, big brother, “Socialist” Scandinavian Model/Swedish Model has been counted out and just as often the Scandinavian countries have proven that they know what they’re doing in the field of economy.
Today, Norway is the second richest country on Earth (and anyone who thinks this is “just because of oil” needs to study the economy of Norway more), Iceland is the fourth richest, Denmark is the sixth richest and Sweden is the eighth richest (measured in nominal GDP per capita according to the IMF).
My conclusion is that works well for Americans isn’t perhaps the best choice for all countries. Regardless of this, I’m convinced we can learn important things from each other.
We Europeans and you Americans are more than allies, we are of the same blood, we are brothers and sisters, BUT we are also, in many ways, different cultures and a lot of debaters pay too little attention to this fact.
Best of regards and long live Conservatism!!
“IKEA, Ericsson, Nokia and Volvo”
Well, Nokia is a Finnish company and Finland is usually not counted as a Scandinavian country.
On the other hand, Finland IS a Nordic country and is also, geographically speaking, part of Fennoscandia. Apart from this, Finland has very strong cultural ties to the other Nordic countries and was once a part of Sweden. Today, they are an independent nation and IMO, the Finns deserve this status like few other people.
“The Medici were a pretty rowdy bunch.”
- The Medicis of the past were rowdy by our standards, but compared to many Italians, the Medicis are/were pretty calm, almost civilized:)
I have a book written by Lorenza de Medici, a present day member of the famous Medici family. This noble woman is an expert of Italian cuisine. Seems like a nice lady.
Speaking of Tuscans and books, here’s a book I’d really like to recommend to anyone who wishes to know how people that actually lived during the Renaissance experienced their own time:
Florence has always been petty bourgeoise, this piece of literature will convince you (- don’t get me wrong, Florence truly deserves the nickname “La Magnifica” and she is forever in my heart!)
If I was to write a “Florentine diary” myself, based on what I, personally, have experienced in blossoming Florentia (the ancient Roman name of Florence, meaning “the flourishing”), it would certainly be less dramatic than a text based on what I’ve experienced in Naples.
I remember waking up on a building/construction site in old Napoli, reading the words “Milanesi siete merda!” the first thing I did that day and thinking “what has this got to do with me?” (for some reason I can sleep anywhere, don’t ask me why this is so). As long as you don’t get into a lot of fights and such things, I guess alcohol is a blessing..
I’m very much a son of the Swedish middle class™ and my life’s quite comfy and all that, but waking up on a such a place is something that never has happened and never will happen to sweet Lorenza at Badia a Coltibuono in the Chianti district..
The link in my most recent post is misleading. Sorry.
Unfortunately, it seems like the Florentine diary by Landucci is currently unavailable, at least on Amazon.
The only thing I can do at the moment is to provide a link to this site:
It isn’t really fair to compare the USA to Norway or Finland. The USA is so much bigger that it is more appropriate to compare it to the EU as a whole; a continental entity, not a small nation sized one. Using that comparison US performance stacks up quite nicely against Europe.
If we cherry-pick the most prosperous and advanced parts of the US, we get results similar to those of Japan or Norway.
In addition, since WWII the US has largely carried the burden of defending the rest of the world. Europe has increasingly bailed out of this responsibility, leaving a significant portion of their GDP to be reinvested in more profitable ventures or used to support non-productive welfare services. The welfare states of western Europe have therefore to a considerable extent been subsidized by the US and its evil defense sector.
“It isn’t really fair to compare the USA to Norway or Finland. The USA is so much bigger that it is more appropriate to compare it to the EU as a whole; a continental entity, not a small nation sized one. Using that comparison US performance stacks up quite nicely against Europe.”
- It would, indeed, be unfair to point solely at Switzerland, the French Riviera or Scandinavia and claim Europe, as a whole, is “more successful” than the US economy wise. This would, of course, involve a big lie.
But does that mean population size is an disadvantage in the field of building a prosperous, well ordered society?
I’d say it isn’t. Sooner, I claim the Scandinavian countries of Norway and Sweden are handicapped by their small populations spread out over their (comparatively) large territories.
There are large countries that are rich; like Germany, Japan and USA and there are also small countries that are well off like Switzerland, Denmark and Luxembourg.
I’m NOT saying Europe is more successful in terms of economy than the US - the US wins that race - but I AM saying there are several societal concepts that have proven successful.
People who view the Scandinavian countries as “Socialist” fail to understand important aspects of Scandinavian culture and history.
While Europeans suffered under the yoke of Feudalism, Scandinavians were running their own farms.
There is a reason why we are richer and more successful (in per capita terms) in the game of Capitalism than any other part of the world.
True enough.
As has been pointed out, people of Swedish, Norwegian and Finnish ancestry do quite well here in the USA.
“As has been pointed out, people of Swedish, Norwegian and Finnish ancestry do quite well here in the USA.”
- And Americans who work over here are pretty successful too:)
Anyhow, long live European/Scandinavian-American friendship!
Together, we will win the WOT!
Reading between the lines, I think I was agreeing with you in advance. Quoting from myself:
"But what makes any country what it is, is always and forever rooted in the moral sensibilities of its people... In the end, that is what matters, not so much the governing philosophy or the political structures of a country... To be clear, the capacity for self-government is a moral quality. Without this moral sense, self-government isn’t possible. But it is this moral quality itself that makes a people who and what they are, not so much the political structures that rise out of it... There is a strong tendency for people to search out the perfect political structures that will make goodness unnecessary, but they can never achieve that purpose. They can occasionally defeat goodness, and along with it whatever is beautiful about a people, but they can never make it unnecessary."
American conservatism is rooted in classic liberalism, John Locke etcetera, which favors decentralized power and we tend to believe that decentralized power has its virtues, among them the tendency to encourage the moral virtues upon which self-government rests.
But you can't deny success, which Sweden and Japan clearly are. What you can do is re-affirm that what makes centralized power structures successful, to the degree that they are, or what makes de-centralized power structures successful, to the degree that they are, is always and forever the underlying moral quality of the people themselves.
If the soul of a people is healthy, rooted in what is good and beautiful and transcendent, then whatever structure they come up with to govern themselves will probably work out all right. The structure can never replace or even fix the soul of a people. The soul is first. The rest is details, like plumbing.
That is America's challenge, and never-ending struggle, and it is the same struggle every nation faces, to get that right. Take care of the soul, and the plumbing will take care of itself.
I think our disagreement is pretty subtle, minor, and best pursued over coffee. I'm brewing some now, brother.
“If the soul of a people is healthy, rooted in what is good and beautiful and transcendent, then whatever structure they come up with to govern themselves will probably work out all right. The structure can never replace or even fix the soul of a people. The soul is first. The rest is details, like plumbing.”
- Very true and also very inspiring words!
Most people would probably agree that the Americans nurture an individualistic culture while the Scandinavian countries are rather collectivist in comparison.
But, like you put it, “The soul is first”.
The majority of Swedes and Americans believe in freedom and true citizenship, education, technological and scientific progress, honesty, hard work, Capitalism and respect for the law. Nations like Germany, USA, the Scandinavian countries, Britain, Japan, South Korea, Canada etc have much in common and it's important that we remain aware of this.
We constitute the material national AND global progress is made of.
For certain reasons, Swedes and Americans have decided to arrange our societies in - somewhat - different ways. However, culturally speaking, we are not worlds apart and even though Blix and Bush didn't agree, there's plenty of evidence we can benefit from joint efforts and cooperation.
My car, a Volvo, is an excellent example of American-Swedish collaboration (just like the cars SAAB make) and another one is this great product, sometimes called “artillery's scalpel” in the US:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S24QGtx6dJY
Western Civilization is ONE. We could all gain a lot from realizing this - and also by cooperating with non-Western nations (like Japan and South Korea)) that share our belief in democracy and freedom. Easter greetings from Gothenburg/Göteborg, Sweden!
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