Posted on 02/23/2008 10:56:29 AM PST by Bob J
Ever since Super Tuesday a super debate has been raging on FR concerning John McCain. I was never a McCain supporter, in fact I penned the post Super Tuesday post "Official FR Drinking Thread" so we could together drown our common disappointments into oblivion.
FReepers seem to be moving into three distinct groups. The first are those that have always supported McCain, a lot or partially. There are those that don't like McCain but are willing to support him because they believe they will get some of what they want or to defeat what the see as the more critical danger, Obama or Clinton. The there's the third group, those that viscerally dislike McCain and vow never to vote for him for any reason.
The actions and motivation for support from the first two groups seem obvious...they would rather see McCain in the White House than a dem. But for the life of me I cannot understand some of the actions of the third.
Allow me to explain.
I understand you dislike McCain and the reasons why. He is far too liberal on many issues, he has stabbed conservatives in the back several times and he is too cozy with the dems. These are all defensible reasons to not vote for him or to vote third party and you have every right to vote as you see fit and for whatever reasons you hold. What I don't understand is why some here are making such concerted efforts to dissuade others from voting for or supporting him.
As flawed as McCain is there is no way a logical case can be made that we would be better off under Obama or Hillary (O&H). Even on most issues where McCain is closer to the left than to us, O&H are much farther to the left than he is and would do much more damage than McCain. On the issues where he is not, the WOT, taxes, abortion, etc., the differences are stark and this does not even take into count extended issues like judicial appointments.
So why are you working so hard, so viscerlly, so nasty, to turn votes against McCain? If you truly feel as you do than go sit out November or cast your vote for your 3rd party candidate. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is why you push for a McCain and GOP loss.
It may be as simple as "misery loves company". It may be that you validate your own position by getting others to believe as you do. It may be that there are some dem propaganda plants on FR. I don't know but I sure would like to and I know others do as well.
I know that. I said next GOP president, not next president.
“If viewed from a long term political stand point looking at SCOTUS, the theory goes that if we have a RAT Hillary or Obama in power for 4 years they will only have the chance to replace LIBS with LIBS that will not affect the make up of the court.”
So you would rather give Hillary or Obama the right to pick the successors to Justice Stevens or Justice Ginsburg than John McCain? Tell me, did you like the choices of Alito and Roberts to the Supreme Court? McCain voted yes on both of them, Hillary and Obama both voted no.
We are one vote away from the elimination of Roe v. Wade. Are you willing to throw away all the gains we’ve made based on personal hatred of McCain? I have never been a fan of McCain, but I would much rather have him picking those justices than Hillary or Obama.
But that's OK. There were loads of Fr folk ROFLOL when I said McCain would win the Republican nomination.
Nobody's laughing any longer, including me.
“If an unwillingness to buy your koolaid”
I am not asking you to buy anything. I don’t care what you do. I just wish you would extend to conservatives the same courtesy.
But that's neither here nor there, I take life as it is not as I want it to be.
I'll put my money where my mouth is though. Let's say I donate a hundred to FR if McCain wins and you donate the hundred if he loses.
I agree. Reason will not work however, but I think you have given it an admirable shot. Well done.
I know you said the next GOP President, but you conveniently left out the fact that the RINO Ford was never elected and that the loser Carter was the one who set the table for Reagan, not the loser Ford.
that’s a deal!
Bookmarked!
Your citation of Carroll Quigley sums it up. It saddens me that many conservatives don’t even see its relevance...despite Bill Clinton pointing out so publically how much Dr. Quigley influenced him.
I can’t vote for McCain or Obama or Hillary. Perhaps I shall write someone in, but I will vote Repub down the ballot.
My husband was transferred. He worked as an engineer at GM Doraville which is closing so even though it is very cold, and I have three feet of snow in my year with 9-12 expected tomorrow, I feel lucky. He still has a job.
Stopping McCain now will make the GOP think harder about what it will take to keep the conservatives in line. Conservatives are Conservatives first, Republican second. To toss that away now would do more harm than good. 2-3 presidents from now will have a far greater impact on the SCOTUS for a longer time.
The way this scenario plays out in theory is that the ends will be justified by not making concessions now. Look at all the concessions the GOP has made to the LIBS and look at what the RATS (read here none) have made back?
Every time the Conservatives make concessions we get bit. When are true conservatives going to stop turning the other cheek and grow a set of balls?
The RATS know that the GOP will make more concessions over and over and that is how we have lost more ground in the last 20 years. Little bits at a time.
Oh really, well that's news to me in a couple of ways!
First that anyone can feel they were dead on with your remark.
Second that you think it's because you hit a nerve and that's why I responded.
Actually I responded because I wondered how someone could make such a post.
But you have made it clear to me now.
“So you would rather give Hillary or Obama the right to pick the successors to Justice Stevens or Justice Ginsburg than John McCain? Tell me, did you like the choices of Alito and Roberts to the Supreme Court? McCain voted yes on both of them, Hillary and Obama both voted no.”
Until Republicans win back the Senate, McCain won’t pick anyone except a nominee pre-approved by Patrick Leahy and Teddy Kennedy.
If Stevens or Ginsburg resigned, and McCain were president, there is no way in hell the Dem. Senate would confirm a nominee that might remotely tip the balance to the conservatives.
Until we win back the Senate, it’s a fantasy that McCain could put who he and Republicans wanted on the court. Winning back the Senate is critical, and the chances of that are better in 2010 after a couple of years of a Dem. president. And that’s the best starting point to rebuild the party and regain power in general.
I see no reason to give your drooling and foaming a substantive reply at this point. Keep insulting conservatives if you think that's the way to win support.
Salo...in a word...BRILLIANT.
Thank you for summing up, so succinctly, what takes others paragraphs to identify.
If McCain wins, the GOP will interpret it to mean that conservatives no longer matter. That will destroy the Republican Party, but more importantly: the nation.
Aren't you the person that complained about toooo many vanities? Is this therapy for you?
When McCain supporters say that to NOT vote for him makes me a traitor, and people on FR should find another country, that Biblical instruction to turn the other cheek simply does not apply. These people remind me just what a 'jerk' candidate (remember lord McCain did call a student a 'jerk' for asking a question about his age) lord McCain has been.
Now there is still time between now and November for lord McCain to repent for his two year old butt showing behaviors. Maybe IF he really wants that position of power he has been lusting after all these many years he might figure out he NEEDS voters and what is required of him to have people VOTE for something instead of once again vote against someone else.
Take to task those out of nowhere posters in a state of paralyzing fear. So in a state of fear of Hillary (lord McCain's best friend) or Obama who seems to have connected with the minds filled with years of diversity training from government funded education, these bullies show up acting just like lord McCain as thought it is their divine right to bully, insult and intimidate people. I have NOT told one person to NOT vote for lord McCain, however I won't be cowered into a corner while the bullies attempt to gag me, another one of those likeness performed by the 'speech' god lord McCain.
Oh and the 'victim' making ploy out of the NYTimes is hardly a change of heart I find acceptable to entice me to speak for, support or trust.
Great post!
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