A Question for FR McCain Detractors

FR | 2-23-08 | Bob J

[Bob J]

Ever since Super Tuesday a super debate has been raging on FR concerning John McCain. I was never a McCain supporter, in fact I penned the post Super Tuesday post "Official FR Drinking Thread" so we could together drown our common disappointments into oblivion.

FReepers seem to be moving into three distinct groups. The first are those that have always supported McCain, a lot or partially. There are those that don't like McCain but are willing to support him because they believe they will get some of what they want or to defeat what the see as the more critical danger, Obama or Clinton. The there's the third group, those that viscerally dislike McCain and vow never to vote for him for any reason.

The actions and motivation for support from the first two groups seem obvious...they would rather see McCain in the White House than a dem. But for the life of me I cannot understand some of the actions of the third.

Allow me to explain.

I understand you dislike McCain and the reasons why. He is far too liberal on many issues, he has stabbed conservatives in the back several times and he is too cozy with the dems. These are all defensible reasons to not vote for him or to vote third party and you have every right to vote as you see fit and for whatever reasons you hold. What I don't understand is why some here are making such concerted efforts to dissuade others from voting for or supporting him.

As flawed as McCain is there is no way a logical case can be made that we would be better off under Obama or Hillary (O&H). Even on most issues where McCain is closer to the left than to us, O&H are much farther to the left than he is and would do much more damage than McCain. On the issues where he is not, the WOT, taxes, abortion, etc., the differences are stark and this does not even take into count extended issues like judicial appointments.

So why are you working so hard, so viscerlly, so nasty, to turn votes against McCain? If you truly feel as you do than go sit out November or cast your vote for your 3rd party candidate. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is why you push for a McCain and GOP loss.

It may be as simple as "misery loves company". It may be that you validate your own position by getting others to believe as you do. It may be that there are some dem propaganda plants on FR. I don't know but I sure would like to and I know others do as well.

[nyconse]

Obviously, if party loyalty was my be all end all, I would vote for McCain. It isn’t and I won’t.

[DarthVader]

Those numbers are changing and it is showing McCain beating Borat now too.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1975060/posts?page=2#2

[Yaelle]

For the WI primary he was running commercials saying he finally heard us on immigration but why did it take so damn long? Why couldn’t he hear us when we were melting down the phone lines on the Hill?

It seems he must have thought that once he forced us to take his medicine, we would acquiesce and then he could run for President anyway.

I suppose a McCain administration would be more of the same. "I know what's best for you people so F off and let me run things."

I am having a very hard time with this nominee but I'd probably vote for him to keep Obama out.

[sugarbabe]

Here is my list:
McCain/Feingold; McCain/Kennedy; Does not support human life amendment; supports federal funding of abortions; Does not support Federal Marriage Amendment; Does not support all plans for a North American Union; Did not sign the Americans for Tax Reform;Did not sign the pledge for no amnesty; he has a terrible temper and was a know womanizer in the past. Is that enough?

[nyconse]

I would love to be wrong. We are in for a tough few years no matter what.

[mountainfolk]

I like Bob Dole as well. However, this brings up another sore point that adds fuel to the fire of Republican discontent. Bob Dole got the nomination because it was his turn to run. Or so the argument went. Many of us believe that this same argument is the reason McCain was pushed on us. Now Huckabee is said to be adamant about continuing his run in the primaries so that he can accumulate enough delegates to overcome Romney and thus be considered the person entitled to get the party support for a presidential run next time around. It is this entitlement attitude cycling within the party that is eroding trust and support with Republican members and other right leaning voters.

[CRBDeuce]

forget the past;
NOW
Repub primaries: lesser of 2 evils
Dem primaries: the 2 greatest liberal thinkers of our time (just ask them)

The problem is actually very simple!

[calcowgirl]

What I don't understand is why some here are making such concerted efforts to dissuade others from voting for or supporting him.

Might I suggest you start by reading one of the many other threads that have covered this territory, ad nauseum?

Keyword: yayanothervanity

[bad company]

When the McCain haters started telling me that Romney was a conservative they lost all their credibility.

[jonrick46]

Thank you for this clear thinking post.

I have to sound the alarm: Danger! Alligators are in the water!

[sugarbabe]

Should have been does not oppose all plans of the North American Union

[org.whodat]

First of all Bob

Damn, that POST was so good I thought Jim was the writer, thanks, hat's off!!!!!

[dforest]

Hey Bob, vote for him if you want to. I won’t. There is no real conservative case to vote for him.

My answer to this whole problem. Vote for whoever you want, that is your right, most likely conservatism will die with this election.

Frankly, I am sick of it all, and am more sickened by phony conservatives.

[E. Cartman]

Some of us believe that McCain is potentially more damaging than Obama because we believe he will pursue a Dem agenda. ...One can expect the Repubs to oppose Obama, but how are they going to oppose McCain? There is no reason for anyone to believe McCain would govern in a conservative or even Repub manner based on the last nine years.

Always better to have the enemy out front where you can see him instead of beside you masquerading as one of your own and waiting to stab you in the back when you're not looking.

In short, McCain is The Trojan Elephant to be snuck insidiously into the citadel of conservatism and destroy it from within.

[JasonC]

Obama will have a majority and will pass his tax increases and his troop withdrawals, regardless.

If McCain were president, he simply wouldn't do either.

Your argument implies we'd have been better off if Bush lost, and Bush pere, and Nixon, and Eisenhower - because they were all centrist squish hawks, every one of them.

We were in fact better off with all of them as president than we would have been without them. Most importantly, the country would not have survived, either in foreign policy or in sane capitalist economic management, without them. The country cannot afford for the right to wait in exile between a Calvin Coolidge and a Ronald Reagan. It is too long, and the world too unforgiving a place.

[nyconse]

A debate between McCain and Obama would be like a Nixon Kennedy debate. The old man-cynical representing the past and the young fresh candidate who still dares to believe (yes I can). My kids think I am old, I am decades younger than McCain. They think McCain is the crypt keeper.

[supercat]

McCain Lieberman is the most important issue on that list because it is current, and I perceive it as a threat that McCain is going to make life miserable for conservatives whether he wins or not, so we may as well in line behind him and take what crumbs he may throw our way.

It seems to me that if he loses, he'll be in less of a position to make our lives miserable.

[DoughtyOne]

Thank you Kevin.

[JasonC]

Right, so you are in no position to decry him merely on the standard of party loyalty.

You can decry him over immigration, but you have to decry Bush too. They are one.

You can lament the fact that there are any men in politics at all, who are not all true blue conservative - but it is whistling dixie.

[rockrr]

Excellent post!