Posted on 02/23/2008 10:56:29 AM PST by Bob J
Ever since Super Tuesday a super debate has been raging on FR concerning John McCain. I was never a McCain supporter, in fact I penned the post Super Tuesday post "Official FR Drinking Thread" so we could together drown our common disappointments into oblivion.
FReepers seem to be moving into three distinct groups. The first are those that have always supported McCain, a lot or partially. There are those that don't like McCain but are willing to support him because they believe they will get some of what they want or to defeat what the see as the more critical danger, Obama or Clinton. The there's the third group, those that viscerally dislike McCain and vow never to vote for him for any reason.
The actions and motivation for support from the first two groups seem obvious...they would rather see McCain in the White House than a dem. But for the life of me I cannot understand some of the actions of the third.
Allow me to explain.
I understand you dislike McCain and the reasons why. He is far too liberal on many issues, he has stabbed conservatives in the back several times and he is too cozy with the dems. These are all defensible reasons to not vote for him or to vote third party and you have every right to vote as you see fit and for whatever reasons you hold. What I don't understand is why some here are making such concerted efforts to dissuade others from voting for or supporting him.
As flawed as McCain is there is no way a logical case can be made that we would be better off under Obama or Hillary (O&H). Even on most issues where McCain is closer to the left than to us, O&H are much farther to the left than he is and would do much more damage than McCain. On the issues where he is not, the WOT, taxes, abortion, etc., the differences are stark and this does not even take into count extended issues like judicial appointments.
So why are you working so hard, so viscerlly, so nasty, to turn votes against McCain? If you truly feel as you do than go sit out November or cast your vote for your 3rd party candidate. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is why you push for a McCain and GOP loss.
It may be as simple as "misery loves company". It may be that you validate your own position by getting others to believe as you do. It may be that there are some dem propaganda plants on FR. I don't know but I sure would like to and I know others do as well.
I've got an inside track on some good bridge stock if you are interested.
“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you
may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.”
— John Quincy Adams —
No, he won't define conservatism. Neither Bush defined conservatism, nor did the many pseudo-cons running in this primary.
This election is more than voting for a Lie or a Liar...for this reason.... I do understand what Conservatives are wrestling with, the lie (obama), the liar (hilery), and the backstabber of Conservatives (mccain) with policy in hand.
Why are you asking questions that have been answered so many times already on various threads? McCain has already lost the election. Better to get over it and focus on the next battle: Congress. Whichever liberal candidate (McCain, Clinton, or Obama) draws the greatest negative backlash from the Conservative voters for the vacating seats in Congress is the best candidate to put in the POTUS chair. If that’s McCain, I’m okay with it ... but rather than encouraging Conservative backlash I see him more likely to redefine “conservatism” in a Clinton-esq way to more closely represent the new Republican party. That is more dangerous to Conservatives than the programs sought after by Clinton and Obama. He is the wolf in sheep’s clothing. Keep your eye on him.
Go right ahead. I'm one who won't be voting for McCain. You can rant and rave all you like, but I'll be satisfied in knowing I didn't vote for either liberal choice. Internet posters assigning blame will have no impact on my decision.
For the conservatives out there who are not going to vote for McCain, you do realize that if McCain loses in November that the Republican establishment and the MSM are going to blame conservatives for the loss. I hope the establishment is not viewing conservatives the way the Dems view blacks in that they’ll vote for us no matter what because there is no way they’ll vote for the other party.
“I also don’t see why I should be expected to be more loyal to the republican party than the candidate we nominated for President.”
Yeah, I’d like an answer to that, too.
Looks to me like “O” is not held in such high regards either by the general population.
Believe me, people, Iran will get and soon use them if Obama wins, and the only political issue that will matter to the American people after that event, is who did what to stop it before it happened. If your answer is "well, I voted for Duncan Hunter in the primaries, then I had a hissyfit", they are not going to see in that a reason to entrust you with the nation's security.
But then I support those who wish to be damn fools:-()
I agree, which is why I’m in Group 2. Reluctant vote and not very actively supporting. But I worked my behind off against everything Kerry stood for the last time around and will do the same against Obama/Hillary this time. If it means I still have to work against McCain if he’s elected, then so be it.
Our public schools and universities have guaranteed us another 2 generations at least of left-leaners, so my fear is that if Obama or Hillary get into the WH, the damage they cause won’t even be recognized by the younger indoctrinated generation. And they are voting now. It does not bode well.
I say keep us as far right as possible and keep fighting.
“...when politics are viewed farther out than 2-4 year blocks, a different picture comes into focus.”
Bingo.
I owe a conservative vote to 5 midwestern children killed in Michigan and Minnesota within 3 days this week.
Conservatives receive no credit when they help the GOP win and are lambasted if the GOP loses-nothing new there. If the GOP cared any about conservatives, they would not allow early primaries in liberal states to choose candidates that are unacceptable to conservatives. McCain is the last straw. I will never vote for him under any circumstance.
Teddy “Juans’ compadre” Kennedy would never allow Juanito to stop Iran from doing any damned thing they want to.
I think the question should be, “Why do you keep trying to change OUR minds?”
You vote for who you want to vote for & we’ll vote for who we want to. When you post these vanities, what is it you are trying to do? If not trying to convince or stir some $hit - what? Quit attacking us & get off our backs!
The McCain bashing is utterly childish. I don't like him, I would prefer at least two of the other candidates to be the nominee, if not more, and he's not perfect on issues I care about.
But only children cry and whine and sit out making a tough decision because the choice is between candidates that aren't your first choices.
I keep hearing how we are the "adult" party. I wish we had some real adults here, like those who fought WW2 and lived through the Depression, for example.
The people in the third group are those who wanted George W. Bush because of his religious affiliation--and now those same people LOATHE George W. Bush.
Maybe, just maybe, sometimes you can't get all you want. You can't have one of "our" kind--a specific religious kind. When considering who to vote for, you don't get the phone book--you get the names of those who managed to get through the system as it is.
Do we have to LIKE it? Heck no.
But this is THE choice we have.
The "strategic" voters, who think "I won't support McCain this time, and the GOP will get the message to choose a religious conservative" or whatever are living in a fantasy world wheere their message is magically transferred precisely. Do you REALLY think the GOP bigwigs are going to just CHANGE? No, sorry, they're not going to see few votes for McCain and think "Hmm, next time, a conservative is going to win the nomination," because they can't guarantee who's going to win.
Remember in 2006 when people here said it was a GOOD thing we lost because now in 2008 a conservative would be in perfect position to win the nomination? Guess that "message" didn't get sent quite right, did it?
That's because when the message is sent indirectly, which is the message sent by not voting, IT DOESN'T GET HEARD. Because the GOP will then argue as to what message was sent. Was McCain TOO conservative? Was he too old? Was he not conservative enough? Should we only choose those approved by Evangelicals (you know, like the current president they mostly loathe)?
A vote is a vote. You want to send a message, it's GOT to be on the state level, or when the national party comes calling for donations. THAT is how the message is sent--if we support conservatives in the state and Congressional level, then guess what we've got in the pool of those who will run for the nomination? (Think hard, now.)
Despising McCain is just childish. Ennobling it by claiming one is "sending a message" is nothing but self-applause.
You go right on clapping yourself on the back, now--the rest of us will be trying to stop one of two socialists from coming to power, and making sure neither gets to choose SCOTUS nominees.
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