Posted on 02/16/2008 8:19:47 PM PST by Tai_Chung
There have been some posts on this topic already, but they are incomplete and the Mccain campaign, Wikipedia, and other sources have weaseled around it with a reference to a 1790 act of Congress defining foreign-born children of US citizens as natural-born, thus meeting to requirements to run for President.
I started digging into the Act of Congress that Mccain's campaign said got him around this (5th Congress, March 26th 1790), but found that this act was repealed by the same Congress, January 29th, 1795, RE-defining such children as just American citizens (not natural-born, as required for Pres. by the Constitution), and that this act was re-repealed April 14th, 1802 by the 6th Congress, keeping the same definition of foreign-born US citizens.
Unless someone can show me something I've missed (and I can find nothing anywhere referring to ANY other defense on this issue as of yet), Mccain is NOT a natural-born citizen of the United States and according to all applicable laws I've found, is NOT eligible to run for President. Links to these Acts of Congress:
“Actually it’s a common misunderstanding that the zone was a U.S. territory - in fact, the U.S. had lease rights, but not territorial rights.”
Found this on redstate, was curious if you have something that says it was a US territory? Thanks
Looks pretty clear, the zone was NOT U.S. territory.
That isn't law. It is someone assembling a guide book based on his own feelings. If the feelings of a guide book assembler trump the Constitution and legislation, the guide book drawers would be the final arbiter of everything.
Surely you'd agree that someone can't be a natural born citizen of two nations. Which nation is an anchor baby a natural born citizen of if both parents are Mexican?
Natural born means born on US soil. McCain is no more a natural born citizen of the US than the many Panamanians who were born at the hospital he was born at.
and if SCOTUS declares the POTUS candidate ineligible, the VPOTUS candidates gets the prize!
So maybe we should hope it to be true!
This is worse then grasping at straws!
McCain is the nominee for better or worse, so much choice will be worse & much much worse. I choose worse!
Hmmmmm ..?? This is an interesting twist. I do believe an American military base on foreign soil becomes American soil - therefore making McCain a “natural born” citizen.
Even if I don’t like the guy .. this is a “going nowhere” story.
Would the problem go up in smoke for the Paulies if he said he’d legalize pot?
The way I understand it is as follows: First there is no question about John McCains citizenship; he is and was a citizen of the United States at birth by “blood” because his parents were US Citizens. What he is not is a Citizen by “soil” because he was not born on US soil. Being a citizen by “soil” is the only form of citizenship that can not be regulated by congress, it is unquestionable and irrevocable. All other citizenship “classes” can be and are regulated by congress, including the citizenship rights of children to US military personnel born on foreign soil. For example one limitation congress has put on Citizens that have their citizenship by their bloodline is: If a US Citizen by blood does not become a United States resident throughout their life time and does not remain a resident for at least 5 years(i.e. grows up and remains abroad), his or her Children again (grand children of the US citizen by soil) does not become United States Citizens if they also are born abroad. Children born to US citizen on foreign soil may also have citizenship rights in the country where they were born, however, that is typically not the case when the parents were there in a diplomatic capacity or as part of a military occupation and not all countries recognize citizenship by soil like the US does anyways but have citizenship laws based fully on citizenship by blood.
While the exact meaning of the requirement for becoming president; “a natural born citizen”, has never been tried in a court of law - the issue of Citizenship by birth on US soil versus Citizenship by blood line and congress’ right to regulate only the latter, was and has since been well settled law tried all the way to the supreme court.
I don’t think he is logged on right now; may I be of service?
He was born on a US military base in a US territory. The author may have wanted to do a little research. Plus did they actually believe McCain could have been on Presidential ballots if he was not eligible?
My husband’s brother in law was born in Cuba, just a year two after McCain. His father worked for the state dept, his mother was a friend of John Kerry’s mother, both from Groton. My husband’s brother in law is not legally a citizen because his parents never filed the proper paper work. He didn’t have to serve in Vietnam because he was not legally a citizen, but he has voted in every election.
If it is amended into the Constitution that a child born to two nationals is a citizen of the parents’ nation, the anchor babies can be considered citizens of the parents’ home nation as well. This is the perfect opportunity to fix the anchor baby problem by making the baby a citizen of the country the mother came from instead of a citizen of the country where it was born. We can legitimize McCain’s presidential run at the same time we solve the anchor baby problem. Let’s get it done for the sake of finally getting something important accomplished for once.
Many babies have been born outside the country on military bases. They are citizens.
“The United States and Panama signed an agreement in 1903 establishing the Canal Zone. The pact gave the United States the right to build and operate the Panama Canal and to govern the Zone. The United States pays Panama $1,930,000 a year for the use of the Zone.”
Further down, it says:
“The Canal Zone government is an independent agency of the United States government. It administers the civil government of the Canal Zone. The President of the United States appoints the governor of the Canal Zone for a four-year term. In time of war, the highest ranking United States Army officer in the Canal Zone takes charge of the Zone and the Canal.”
It goes on to describe how the U.S. government operates the Zone’s police & fire departments, its hospitals, sanitation facilities, and schools. This would all tend to support the view that it was some type of U.S. territory. However, it may not have been a U.S. territory in the same sense as Puerto Rico or Guam, because it was never given a non-voting representative in Congress. It was perhaps more of a leased territory since we paid Panama an annual fee (rent) for it.
The United States Code is the codification by subject matter of the general and permanent laws of the United States. It is divided by broad subjects into 50 titles and published by the Office of the Law Revision Counsel of the U.S. House of Representatives.
Yes, that’s probably right. Still, this is something that has never been tested, because none of the candidates in similar circumstances have won a presidential election.
you are right, Carter gave that away.
I have hesitated to jump into this because of the lack of knowledge by some concerning my birthplace and home, the Canal Zone.
Tai_Chung and LibertarianInExile understand the facts because they took the trouble to do the research.
If some do not understand the treaty by reading it as simple as it was written, sadly there is no help or hope for you.
John McCain’s father was stationed in Quarry Heights and the present nut was born in Gorgas Hospital, Ancon, which belonged to the Canal Zone and not to the military.
If McCain becomes the presidential nomination for the Republican party, this will be going to the Supreme Court. I can see the Democrats pushing this, and it sould be.
Thank you, Tai_Chung, for your research and caring.
Thank you, LibertarianInExile, for sharing the Panama Canal Treaty of 1903.
Good work by both of you.
Regards and love from a Canal Zonian.
Yes, I believe that was the case. My Dad spent most of his life on active military duty and, although none of his children were born outside the U.S., it’s petty, vile and smarmy for it to be suggested that we would not be eligible for the presidency if we had been. I have plenty to argue against McCain with, but some small-minded sophomoric display of personal ignorance is way beneath dignity.
If it is amended into the Constitution that a child born to two nationals is a citizen of the parents’ nation, the anchor babies can be considered citizens of the parents’ home nation as well. This is the perfect opportunity to fix the anchor baby problem by making the baby a citizen of the country the mother came from instead of a citizen of the country where it was born. We can legitimize McCain’s presidential run at the same time we solve the anchor baby problem. Let’s get it done for the sake of finally getting something important accomplished for once.
Excellent idea! What some are missing in this disagreement is that McCain is of course an American Citizen via derived or acquired citizenship from his parents, which does not answer whether he meets the other definition of natural born citizen. The law is unlcear on that issue. Additionally was he a C section? /sarcasm.
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