China taps into U.S. spy operations

The Washington Times ^ | December 21, 2007 | Bill Gertz

[george76]

China's intelligence service gained access to a secret National Security Agency listening post in Hawaii through a Chinese-language translation service, according to U.S. intelligence officials.

The spy penetration was discovered several years ago as part of a major counterintelligence probe by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS) that revealed an extensive program by China's spy service to steal codes and other electronic intelligence secrets, and to recruit military and civilian personnel with access to them.

According to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity, China's Ministry of State Security, the main civilian spy service, carried out the operations by setting up a Chinese translation service in Hawaii that represented itself as a U.S.-origin company.

The ruse led to classified contracts with the Navy and NSA to translate some of the hundreds of thousands of intercepted communications gathered by NSA's network of listening posts, aircraft and ships.

Naval intelligence officials familiar with the Chinese spy penetration said the access to both "raw" and analyzed intelligence at Kunia caused significant damage by giving China's government details on both the targets and the sources of U.S. spying operations. Such information would permit the Chinese to block the eavesdropping or to provide false and misleading "disinformation" to U.S. intelligence.

The officials did not say how long the Chinese operation lasted before being detected.

"There can be no higher target for an intelligence service, and that includes China's MSS and 2 PLA, than gaining access to an adversaries' codes and electronic intelligence," he said, because it is the ultimate in "foreknowledge" advocated by ancient Chinese strategist Sun Tzu.

The facility was singled out for criticism in the past by intelligence reform advocates because of its restrictive policies on information-sharing.

[JACKRUSSELL]

(Please FReepmail me if you would like to be on or off of the list.)

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[Paul Ross]

The best way to change societies is economically.

And you certainly aren't doing it right. Constantine Menges explained that in detail. But he must be ignored by you, since you would have to change your mind about things if you were a legitimate rational debater here.

We need to put full-bore anti-communists, such as Dr. Constantine Menges, back in charge.

We can make this work. The only way for reform...is regime change. Which we proved we can do with the Soviet Union. And we did it in basically 8 and a half years.

Your strategy of constant-cave-in and and economic sell-out has proven that you can't. You have had this policy in place for basically 16 years. And the menace grows daily. You have failed. And are a failure if you are serious about "reforming" China.

We anti-communists can get it done... and the RINOs and shills scream every time that a real anti-communist gets close to an opportunity to implement truly anticommunist foreign policy.

That is the problem. You are corrupt. You even admit it. Your livelihood depends on continuing to be relocated in China, and sell to the U.S., thereby to undermine the U.S. manufacturing and increase its trade debt, and bolster China's manufacturing and trade surplus. Hence your lame, and inaccurate attacks on Hunter as one illustration of your shrillness.

It's been proven since the time of Rome - economic prosperity will create peace, and ease tensions.

What a naive and hopelessly incomplete understanding of history. Which clearly you fail to grasp any of. Japan for example was quite prosperous before they launched their attack on China or Pearl Harbor.

How many contradictions of your thesis does it take for you to comprehend that no amount of Chicom prosperity is going to end their enmity? Or deviate from their plan to use their loot to subvert, weaken and ultimately destroy us and our liberties?

The Chicoms are ideological despots who laugh every time you think you control "your" wholly-owned factory in China.

Or a President, or Commerce Secretary or Treasury Secretary bleats the standard refrain about their being "stakesholders" in the international trading system: "Tell your President that is not the relationship we have."

And the chilling outline of their doctrine of covert war preparation: "It matters not whether you call the cat yellow or black, but whether it catches mice."

The mice in his quote, referring to a war story by one of his most popular communist generals...was victories in the field. And he was broadening it to also mean capture of industry and technology to bolster that military strength. That is what Deng Xiaoping meant, as confirmed by Chinese scholars.

Duncan Hunter is simply an isolationist who doesn't recognize history, and he's completely wrong on trade.

I could say that you are simply a shill. Your arguments cannot be distinguished from one. Your facile "relativism" ...equating the trade espionage of France and Britain say...with the deeply sinister conduct of the Chicoms to steal extremely critical and vital defense info, encryption, codes, and technology and disinform our intel branches...is simply beyond the pale.

It needs to be pointed out that neither France (no matter our rivalry) or Britain...has been threatening to nuke the USA. The Chicoms do...and repeatedly.

If you were on the level, you would have to revisit the treason tag you admit has been widely pinned on you. Your soft-headed notion that you are 'reforming' China in the right way, by letting things go precisely as the Chicoms dictate...is devoid of merit. Your love for China is also clearly at odds with your love for America, no matter your denials when you are busted on it, as one of our greatest Presidents observed:

The man who loves other countries as much as his own stands on a level with the man who loves other women as much as he loves his own wife.
--Theodore Roosevelt

As for Duncan Hunter, I have studied him at great length and find he is no way an "isolationist." He is quite the contrary...A Nationalist who wishes to defend OUR INTERESTS on the global stage. This makes him a distinct contrast from the CFR Globalists who think they have a monopoly on internationalism. And it is also clear that his understanding of our foes, and how industrial transfers relate to our relative defense preparedness and economics transcends yours or the Chicom apologist lobby.

[ckilmer]

the question is why was this story leaked and why now. someone inside the NSA leaked this story.It could not have come from some place else.

I wonder if this doesn't have something to do with the intel community's embarrassment over that silly Iran estimate. maybe someone was getting back at someone for their part in heated subsequent intramural discussions. This is a very curious story. Just as curious is the this story: Report: Hoover had plan for mass arrests (1950, up to 12,000 suspected of being disloyal).

Maybe the two stories are related.

[airborne]

long past time we started treating China as the potential threat they are rather than a favored trading partner.

Protectionist! Anti-Capitalist! Racist! (did I miss any?)

What about all that MONEY, MONEY, MONEY I can make/save by buying from/selling out to China??

(sarcasm)

Duncan Hunter for President! Care enough to send the very best!

[Calpernia]

PING

[SatinDoll]

I don’t know about the NSA part. But somebody is trying to get information out about these lapses in security. These aren’t breeches, these are out and out misjudgements by someone in the chain of command. It’s going to kill us if the people making these stupid decisions aren’t fired.

The story puts the lie to China’s being a trading partner on a path to potential ally. Hell, even Mexico isn’t an ally.

[Calpernia]

Duncan Hunter: Well, you know, China has many conflicting interests. They have interests to continue to market their products in the U.S. and stack our billions of dollars in their treasury, they like that. On the other hand, they like an America that is off balance. And that is why they have transferred technology to countries around the world that are not friends of the United States. That is why we can see China as always, like when we put stiff sanctions on Iran which is walking down the path to build nuclear weapons, China is there to blunt American sanctions. So they like to see America off balanced, a little bit weakened. They also see America as a competitor in the industrial Global Trade that is taking place. They are moving aggressively to lock up oil supplies around the world. People say you can’t be tough on China because they are so big. I say you can’t ignore China because they are so big. And because of what they are doing.

I watched their military build up. They are building up at double digit pace right now. They are building lots of submarines, buying lots of high end fighter aircraft from the Russians, building about 100 short range ballistic missiles a year. China is stepping into the super power shoes that the Soviet Union left. Now we can have a good relationship with China; but it will have to be a relationship based on American Strength. I think Ronald Reagan proved that to us in our era of conflict and competition with the Soviet Union.

[Calpernia]

>>>>WHEN THE F*** ARE WE GOING TO PULL OUR COLLECTIVE HEADS OUT OF OUR BUTTS AND CONFRONT THESE COMMUNIST SCUMBAGS?????????

[Duncan Hunter] Those tough old communists that ran the politboro are still running things. We see these generals make wild statements like, “We hope you value L.A. more than you do Taiwan”. That is a thinly veiled threat to nuke L.A. Then there will be a flurry of newspaper statements by people saying well, ‘general so and so didn’t mean it’. Well I hope general so and so is pretty far away from that nuclear trigger. Because that is a wild statement. You see those wild statements that came out of Yunnan Island where the American plane was shot down or was forced down, and the wild statements that came out of there diplomacy core after that were tempered by their trade people. But it shows us there is a element of leadership that is embedded in the Chinese hierarchy that is very aggressive, very anti American and very war like. It is difficult to know which element of the Chinese leadership is going to dominate the government in 5 years.

[Old Sarge]

Somebody explain to me why we even bother with compartmented information anymore....

[Philistone]

Two problems:

1) Lack of native born foreign speakers. Thank the modern public skool system and its emphasis on “self-esteem” rather than knowledge;

2) Backlog in DSS and DISCO - up to two years in some cases - leading to an increase in “provisional” “S” and “TS” clearances.

[Calpernia]

>>>Apparently Los Alamos does alot of information-sharing, too.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1845268/posts
HUNTER INTRODUCES “NUCLEAR SECRETS SAFETY ACT” (Duncan Hunter - 2000)

Excerpt:

“The Clinton-Gore Administration has, through fumbling incompetence and short-sighted policies, lost critical defense secrets,” said Hunter. “The recent incident at Los Alamos National Laboratory is indicative of the irresponsibility and disregard this administration has given to protecting America’s national security. This legislation begins to correct the problem.”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1845268/posts?page=40#40
Testimony of John C. Browne
to the Senate Committee on Armed Services

June 21, 2000

Subject: Security Issues at Los Alamos National Laboratory

[Calpernia]

ping

[Calpernia]

bump

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

Admiral Keating’s a moron.

[Calpernia]

>>>Is the USA the worst major power in history at spying and counter-spying?

Probably.

Ref:

http://blog.barofintegrity.us/2007/09/07/duncan-hunter-speaking-at-the-vfw-forum-in-houston-tx.aspx

Excerpt

The best way to stop a plan to hit the United States or our allies or troops is to have someone in the room when they make the decision. That means human intelligence. That means an agent or somebody working for one of our case officers who can then go and tell us about it and we stop it before execution takes place.

The Clinton Administration decimated the CIA in the 1990s. They took out of position a ton of case officers. [Example and pointing to audience members] If our case officer in the first row here, let’s say you are a taxi cab driver, let’s say you are a reception in a business and you hear a lot of conversations, let’s say that you are a guy on an athletic team and you know some of the guys that are involved with a terrorist operation…When you hear something that happens and I’m the case manager and you all know me, you all have a relationship with me, I’m an American CIA Case Manager. I get information from you. When I’m defunded and I go away and my job is closed. Then 5 years later we go back and say Hunter, go back and start this operation over again. You guys may all be gone. You may be in different places. I will take a long time to recruit new people, get them to the point where they trust me and I can get information from them. That is called human intelligence. And that is the most important information you can get. I can tell you some of the best military operations we had historically was because we had information. We had someone in the room when they made the decision to strike. So we were able to stop them.

So you have to have various means of human intelligence. That is one of the things we are going to have to from here on out. We are going to have to rebuild it. And make sure it is very strong.

[Calpernia]

>>>they have very cheap labor that big corporations take advantage of at the expense of the American worker

As well as the political prisoners.

Ref:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1602444/posts?page=20#20
Sujiatun death camp

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1602444/posts?page=24#24
Labor Camps

[Calpernia]

>>>When will one of the Pub guys actually speak out on the problem and threat from China?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1932507/posts
Hunter asks Bush for China policy meeting

[Calpernia]

>>>>I wonder if this doesn’t have something to do with the intel community’s embarrassment over that silly Iran estimate.

See speech excerpted at post 15 from GEN. SATTLER.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1940451/posts
Iran says U.S. report a “declaration of surrender”

[darkwing104]

Knowning Bill Gertz it probably came from within. All I can say is no f#^king comment and it doesn’t surprise me....dumbasses.