Historic split for U.S. Episcopals

Reuters ^ | December 8, 2007 | Adam Tanner

[Zakeet]

FRESNO, California (Reuters) - An entire California diocese of the U.S. Episcopal Church voted to secede on Saturday in a historic split after years of disagreement over the church's expanding support for gay and women's rights.

Clergy and lay representatives of the Episcopal Diocese of San Joaquin, based in Fresno in central California, voted to leave the church, which has been in turmoil since 2003 when U.S. Episcopalians consecrated their first openly gay bishop.

"We've seen a miracle here today," Bishop John-David Schofield said after the vote. "We are already outside the jurisdiction of the Episcopal Church."

The head of the U.S. Episcopal Church, Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, said the church had received word of the decision "with sadness."

"We deeply regret their unwillingness or inability to live within the historical Anglican understanding of comprehensiveness," she said in a statement.

There are about 2.4 million members of the Episcopal Church, the U.S. branch of the 77-million-member global Anglican Communion, as the worldwide church is called.

Delegates voted 173-22 for secession, far more than the two-thirds majority needed.

[InABunkerUnderSF]

Apologies. Thank God we still have a path to the sea.

[Conservativegreatgrandma]

This is great news. Maybe there is hope for others. It is member churches of the National Council of Churches who have become hijacked by liberals/Democrat/Socialists/Communists.

• African Methodist Episcopal Church
• The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
• Alliance of Baptists
• American Baptist Churches in the USA
• Diocese of the Armenian Church of America
• Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
• Christian Methodist Episcopal Church
• Church of the Brethren
• The Coptic Orthodox Church in North America
• The Episcopal Church
• Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
• Friends United Meeting
• Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
• Hungarian Reformed Church in America
• International Council of Community Churches
• Korean Presbyterian Church in America
• Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church
• Mar Thoma Church
• Moravian Church in America Northern Province and Southern Province
• National Baptist Convention of America
• National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc.
• National Missionary Baptist Convention of America
• Orthodox Church in America
• Patriarchal Parishes of the Russian Orthodox Church in the USA
• Philadelphia Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends
• Polish National Catholic Church of America
• Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
• Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc.
• Reformed Church in America
• Serbian Orthodox Church in the U.S.A. and Canada
• The Swedenborgian Church
• Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch
• Ukrainian Orthodox Church of America
• United Church of Christ
• The United Methodist Church •

[stripes1776]

I find it amazing that the folks in California got fed up with the garbage.

Yes, it is surprising that this happened in California. But I think this is something that should have happened long ago. But I do not expect the national church to let this diocese go without a fight. I look for legal action soon. Still, I think this diocese probably has its lawyers all in line, ready to hit the ground running.

[altura]

I have heard nothing of the kind about the Episcopal priests. Do you have any actual documentation.

There was one scandal in our parish about 30 years ago but it involved the priest (male) and the choir director (female).

What a cliche, but, hey, it happens.

[AndyTheBear]

I find it amazing that the folks in California got fed up with the garbage. :)

Not the liberal enclaves. This happened in my county, where folks are sane.

[wayoverthehill]

I left the Episcopal church shortly after this laughable excuse for a Bishop was elected. I guess I must be gullible though because I was a member for quite a few years before I found out that our Rector had a “partner”. I suspected that he was gay but did not know about his “arrangement”. About 1/4 of our congregation is gay. I overlooked it for as long as I could but no more. I have been taking Catholic instruction but am not quite ready to take that leap either. I am in limbo. Hope I don’t die while I’m there.

[Brilliant]

“We deeply regret their unwillingness or inability to live within the historical Anglican understanding of comprehensiveness...”

I may be confused, but I thought it was the half who ordained the gay priest that had broken with tradition.

[Not A Snowbird]

the historical Anglican understanding of comprehensiveness

What does that even mean?!

[stripes1776]

At the time, many of those Episcopalians aligned with the Anglican church.

The Episcopal Church is the official Anglican church in America and part of the world-wide Anglican Communion. That's the problem. There are scores of small groups that have splintered off since back in the 1970s, all calling themselves Anglican, but all of them independent from the Anglican Communion. There are now some Episcopal congregations who have aligned themselves with the official Anglican churches in other parts of the world, such as Africa or South America. The San Joaquin Diocese is the first to this as a whole. This is a very big mess among American Anglicans. But then, welcome to life.

[I still care]

Also, except for the occaisional woman seducing a young boy, you don’t hear anything about teachers seducing children. It happens all the time. I would be willing to be there are far more teachers hitting on children than ever happened in the Catholic hierarchy.

If fact, I remember when I was in high school one of the male teachers was “encouraged to retire early”.

[trimom]

Keep praying and keep searching. The Lord hears the cry of the poor. Blessed be the Lord.

[stripes1776]

What does that [the historical Anglican understanding of comprehensiveness] even mean?!

It goes back to the conditions of the Church of England in the 16th century. Queen Elizabeth guided the church between the extremes of the hardline Catholics and Puritans and thereby avoided civil war. It was called the Elizabethan Settlement, a sort of compromise between Catholicism and Protestantism. Comprehensiveness came to mean a church that could accomodate both high and low church factions, in other words a broad, two-party church. And Anglicans have traditionally taken some pride and satisfaction in this comprehensiveness, embracing tolerantly and concurrently what they thought to be the best of Catholic and Protestant theology and practice.

However, over the part 40 years, the term "comprehensivenes" has become a cliche to cover all sorts of goofy ideas coming from the political left in the church. So if a conservative disagrees about leftist ideas coming into the church, the left starts talking about a tradition of comprehensiveness. It has become a meaning less term.

[Think free or die]

I wish our congregation had the gumption to do this. There just isn't the sentiment or the leadership for it. We have a very nice congregation, and generally people avoid discussion of divisive matters in order to focus on helping those in need.I would prefer to change the political leanings of our congregation, but on the whole, I find it a positive place to worship.

We're currently dealing with controversy surrounding our Bishop (Philadelphia). Many people are outraged over his admitted inaction when his brother abused a minor while an Episcopal youth minister. Having been in a meeting with the Bishop when he was confronted with his inaction, I'm firmly opposed to him being in a position of trust or leadership. I was completely unimpressed with his integrity and comprehension of his own responsibility. Despite the liberal leanings of our congregation, there is widespread disgust over the situation with our bishop, and great relief that he's (at least temporarily) relieved of his duties. There are a lot of other issues with respect to his leadership style and financial responsibility apart from the situation with his brother. Any one of them alone would disqualify him from his current responsibilities in my eyes. Apparently it's not easy to relieve a priest or bishop of responsibility in the Episcopal church, and this process is painfully long.

[yldstrk]

I keep telling my kids—no such thing as gay marriage. No such animal.

[SuziQ]

Are you in an RCIA program? I hope it is a good one. I’ll keep you in my prayers!

[VOA]

bump

[Calvin Locke]

Most incidents, afaik, involved priests from the graduating classes of around 1960-1962, from either St. John's Seminary, Boston, or St. John's Seminary, Camarillo CA.

So, the "old boy network" was in place to allow the transgressions to go uncorrected for so long, as classmates advanced in the lavender mafia.

I'm sure the decline in priests also made them loathe to permanently boot the offenders out.

[Mr. Lucky]

If the Lord has guided you to Catholic theology, but has made you hesitant to join that Church, He obviously wants you to be a Missouri Synod Lutheran.

[Mr. Lucky]

If the Lord has guided you to Catholic theology, but has made you hesitant to join that Church, He obviously wants you to be a Missouri Synod Lutheran.

[AnAmericanMother]

Well, if you call being an eyewitness documentation, yes.

I used to work with insurance adjusters, so I heard about a lot more than what I personally saw. But, yes, several parishes were notorious for 'cruising', and I saw it happening. We changed parishes on account of it, because nobody did anything until it got to lawsuit territory. I could name names, but the priests involved are dead or have left the ministry, so it would serve no purpose other than gossip.

Understand that the diocese we left is one of the most screamingly liberal in America, with a bishop that totally sold out to the revisionists.