Posted on 11/23/2007 6:59:38 AM PST by NYer
On Sunday mornings, most parents who don't believe in the Christian God, or any god at all, are probably making brunch or cheering at their kids' soccer game, or running errands or, with luck, sleeping in. Without religion, there's no need for church, right?
Maybe. But some nonbelievers are beginning to think they might need something for their children. "When you have kids," says Julie Willey, a design engineer, "you start to notice that your co-workers or friends have church groups to help teach their kids values and to be able to lean on." So every week, Willey, who was raised Buddhist and says she has never believed in God, and her husband pack their four kids into their blue minivan and head to the Humanist Community Center in Palo Alto, Calif., for atheist Sunday school.
An estimated 14% of Americans profess to have no religion, and among 18-to-25-year-olds, the proportion rises to 20%, according to the Institute for Humanist Studies. The lives of these young people would be much easier, adult nonbelievers say, if they learned at an early age how to respond to the God-fearing majority in the U.S. "It's important for kids not to look weird," says Peter Bishop, who leads the preteen class at the Humanist center in Palo Alto. Others say the weekly instruction supports their position that it's O.K. to not believe in God and gives them a place to reinforce the morals and values they want their children to have.
(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...
“An estimated 14% of Americans profess to have no religion,”
But that’s a religion! If one doesn’t believe that, just attack it once and you will hear a vociferously defense of that religion.
You are right about those who I would call 'closed atheists' (for lack of a better term) - they do believe (without evidence) that this is all there is. But, those I would call 'open atheists' have agnosticism in them and know that there might be something other than this, we just can't prove it either way.
For 'open atheists', the logical conclusion of the philosophy is that 'the world might be meaningless'...and therefore they can't live life as if it were.
If you are right in that atheism leads to meaningless, destructive living, then you should see this program as a good thing because it's instilling values and morals in young children, whether or not they'll end up in eternal damnation.
I think you meant to post this response to BChan rather than to me. I'm not the one who said atheism leads to meaninglessness (BChan did). I'm the one who thinks that non-Theistic morality is worse than no morality at all. I only wish that atheists thought life was meaningless. Then we'd be spared such little non-Theistic moral experiments as Communism, with its billions and billions of dead victims. If that is what "values and morals" do to atheists then they're better off without them.
But that’s a religion! If one doesn’t believe that, just attack it once and you will hear a vociferously defense of that religion.
I disagree. The absence of belief in the supernatural implies no religion, except in the case of the 4th definition below.
On the other hand, I believe it's possible to believe in God...maybe even believe in the historical Biblical account of Jesus...and yet have no religion...at least according to some definitions of religion:
religion
1a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. 2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order. 3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. 4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
This reminds me of the Neitchiens on “Andromeda”. They were great citizens of the empire. But when the empire fell, they were superior, so of course humans should serve them. There was no reason not to take such a logical course.
[Sarcasm]Hey, look at it this way: at least it won't be G-d bossing you around! Won't that make it all better???[/Sarcasm]
Apparently creating the universe is the only thing that disqualifies one from having the right to dictate behavior to others.
Well the prophet Al Gore Jr. has shown them the way.
BELIEF in the no god god is faith. Agnosticism says “we cannot know”.
Holding weekly secular teaching sessions to promote their atheism is an institutionalized system.
Thou shall not espouse conservatism.
To eat meat is to condone murder.
To espouse fetal rights is to condone the subjugation of women...
Ha! What makes you think I will be the one who is ruled? I've got a massive cerebral cortex, which will put me in line for a position in the new ruling class. Some humans are just scientifically proved to be superior to others. Tough evolutional noogies.
I went to Unitarian Sunday school. Fits the bill nicely.
I’m still recovering from the shock of my aging hippie brother-in-law invoke “Gaia” at yesterday’s Thanksgiving meal. I think a lot of these atheists probably have merely substitute gods like the earth. As Chesterton said, once people stop believing in God, they’ll believe in anything.
INTREP
She still doesn't get it. Without Christ people with values still are condemned .
11For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
--Titus 2:11-14
3At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. 8This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.
--TItus 3:3-8
“On the other hand, I believe it’s possible to believe in God...maybe even believe in the historical Biblical account of Jesus...and yet have no religion...at least according to some definitions of religion:”
And then there’s knowing Him personally and enjoying his company.
Baptist ping
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