Posted on 11/12/2007 3:53:44 PM PST by mdittmar
UFOs may be fodder for comedians and science fiction but there was no joking Monday when a group of pilots and officials demanded the US government reopen an investigation into unidentified flying objects.
The 19 former pilots and government officials, who say they have seen UFOs themselves or been involved in probes of strange flying objects, told reporters their questions can no longer be dismissed more than 30 years after the US case was closed.
"We want the US government to stop perpetuating the myth that all UFOs can be explained away in down-to-earth, conventional terms," said Fife Symington, former governor of Arizona and air force pilot who says he saw a UFO himself in 1997.
"Instead our country needs to reopen its official investigation that it shut down in 1969," Symington told a news conference.
Symington read an appeal on behalf of the group of who came to Washington to recount their sightings of UFOs.
"We believe that for reasons of both national security and flight safety, every country should make an effort to identify any object in its airspace," the statement said.
The group included a retired pilot from Air France who said he saw an enormous flying disc during a flight from Nice to London in 1994, an Iranian pilot who tried in vain to fire on a UFO in 1976 and a former US official from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) who claims a probe into a UFO seen over Alaska in 1987 was squelched.
"'Who believes in UFOs?' is the kind of attitude of the FAA all the time," Symington said.
"However, when I asked the CIA person: 'What do you think it was,' he responded 'a UFO.'"
When Symington suggested the government tell Americans about a UFO, the CIA official allegedly told him: "'No way, if we were to tell the American public there are UFOs they would panic.'"
The subject of UFOs came up in a recent debate among presidential candidates, with Democrat Dennis Kucinich saying he saw a UFO.
Skeptics say UFO sightings are merely aircraft or meteors re-entering the Earth's atmosphere.
Not according to Jesse Marcel.
***What part? That when the sun dies out in billions of years? Please be more specific.
Regarding Crop Circles:
I don’t think the study of this phenomena is worth that much of my time. If I figure it out, I might find a way to bend cornstalks in an interesting pattern. But when I came across what is most likely the answer to the flying saucer thing, a whole range of technological possibilities exist. The payoff for cropcircles is far less than the payoff for studying flying saucers.
And the same goes with abduction phenomenon. If I solve that one I might have one or 2 sleep disorders nailed, but there is no technology gold pot at the end of that rainbow.
Number of UFO sightings proven as alien crafts: zero
Yet on the other hand, you and at least one other here has stated that many or some of these sightings could be top secret government black ops craft, etc. Since you have alleged that many of these sighting could be government secret craft, do you feel it possible the government might have some evidence of their existence?
***Yes, I do believe the guvmint has evidence of the existence of flying saucers, because it was intimately involved in funding the research behind the technology. It is a poorly worded question, with the open ended possibility that you might be getting at whether or not there are ET flying saucers in the guvmint’s possession, which I do not think is possible and is inductively provable, so please read Vesco’s book.
Do you believe in the big bang scenario? It is believed that the initial expansion exceeded the speed of light. However, I personally don’t believe rocket powered craft will ever cut it for reasonable interstellar travel. There might be another way to travel between the stars though.
***I agree with you on the speed of light thing. Here’s at least one thread where we’ve been discussing it:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1761127/posts?page=82#82
I have seen some discussion in Free Republic and elsewhere that the fine structure constant (as well as C) might not be a constant.
Sacred constant might be changing
Speaking at the Institute of Physics conference Physics 2005, Dr Michael Murphy of Cambridge University will discuss the “fine structure constant” – one of ...
freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1382010/posts
How Einstein may have got the theory of relativity wrong
If true, it means that something called the fine structure constant — a measure of the ... The speed of light depends on the fine structure constant. ...
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1381866/posts
The 2004 Nobel Prize in Physics
One important property of quantum mechanics in the QED theory is that the fine structure constant could be shown to vary with energy; it increases with ...
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1235560/posts
What if micro-organisms, or evidence of past life are found say 5 feet beneath the Martian surface in 20 years or so? Would you believe it if told?
***Yes
Do you believe it’s possible, that life, micro-organisms etc, could have been scattered, or carried off into space by extreme large impacts during earths ancient past?
***That one’s tough. There was that evidence that some tiny rock thingies looked like bacteria from a martian meteorite. But the evidence was soon questioned. So, back to the mathematical definition of “possible”, I suppose for now I’d have to say it’s pretty close to that 10^-50 threshold so I’m inclined to say it is not possible.
To be clear here, I personally believe their is other life, in one form or another in the universe, outside earth. As a matter of fact, I think it would be more mind bending if earth were the only rock in the universe with life on it. JMO.
***And as a matter of fact, I do think that earth is the only rock with life on it, and that we are JUST AT THE BEGINNING of life expanding throughout this galaxy and the universe, starting FROM US. But that’s just idle speculation, as fun as it is, it doesn’t really further the study of ufology.
When Musgrave speaks of this, it’s no great leap for one to assume he’s admitting knowledge of alien life. As the final slide of a “Grey” ET was shown during a recent astronomy presentation by Dr. Musgrave, he made this surprising comment: “These guys are real... I guarantee it!” Dr. Musgrave does know the truth. This author guarantees it!
***So we’re supposed to just close down all of our investigations and take his word for it? What is his guarantee worth? Has he produced any evidence beyond some words? I’m interested. Keep in mind that if these are secret weapons, the guvming will go to great lengths to keep up the perception that this is just a weird american thing and the hicks in Nevada are just kinda nuts, seeing all that stuff. They have to keep a few NASA types on their payroll to further the impression that they’re hiding ET evidence, to keep the crowd interested and the counterintelligence operatives from enemy countries unwary.
There’s no evidence either way, and the rare Earth hypothesis holds just as much weight as the principle of mediocrity, so its simply a wash. I think SETI is a waste of money and an initiative built solely on faith and wishful thinking. If people want to listen, let them. But I wouldn’t spend taxpayer money on it, I wouldn’t ever invest any personal funds in it, and I don’t think it should be treated as serious research.
Its fun to think about the possibility of aliens, and it might get some kids interested in science. But SETI, ufology, and related studies are more akin to religions than science.
***You’re the first Freeper I’ve run into that has the same rational approach to the ET hypothesis, and on SETI. Have you ever had discussions on the internet with a guy who calls himself MJ SETI over this topic?
Actually, science the last 50 years or so has been more akin to religion than science.
***Bump that. Have a look at the approach I take on these discussions, I call it an “inductive triangle”.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1904271/posts?page=64#64
From another FReeper:
Hi Quix,
I just found out the History channel will have a program called UFO Hunters starting in Feb, 2008. I just wanted to pass that along to you incase you didn’t know.
Marcel asserted that they all knew they were not dealing with anything originated on earth.
Sounds like your priorities are fairly clear in such matters.
And, that your assumptions are way above average strong.
Thanks.
I get weary of those discussions, fast.
Finally checked your favorite book out on Amazon.
I believe I read it way back when.
Thought it was a good book worth reading.
Did not believe then nor believe now that the UFO technologies were or are 100% human in origin.
I recognize that you are a TRUE BELIEVER in virtually every sense of the word in that hypothesis/assertion.
I’m not.
This is Marcel, the grandson of Major Marcel? Or Marcel, the guy who identified balloon material as alien? Which one?
And, that your assumptions are way above average strong.
***What assumptions are those? I’ve listed my CONCLUSIONS about a couple of supposedly related phenomena after studying the phenomena of UFOs for 30 years.
I get weary of those discussions, fast.
***Interesting, especially since I agree with you on that conclusion about science. How is it you get weary if you have come to such a conclusion? Did you deliberate over the evidence at all or is it just one of those gut instinct conclusions that makes you feel like you don’t ever want to look at either side of the evidence?
Thought it was a good book worth reading.
***Good to know. As other readers can see, even Quix, who disagrees with the conclusions, thought it was “a good book worth reading.” So it’s not like I’m making people spin their wheels.
Did not believe then nor believe now that the UFO technologies were or are 100% human in origin.
***Why? How did you arrive at this belief?
I recognize that you are a TRUE BELIEVER in virtually every sense of the word in that hypothesis/assertion. I’m not.
***Why again? How again?
Not that being related to religion or science or both is a bad thing, of course. One thing we do a lot is go out and take a look around--every day if possible. See what there is to see. These things are possible, which doesn't make them necessarily real, but posting a sentry isn't a bad thing either.
Something is out there.
The Truth is Out There...
The Xfiles say so.
Senior stated such. And, of course, the then 11 year old son, now MD remembered his dad’s assertions.
But most higher ranking folks of that era who’ve gone on the record at all, have asserted the same thing.
And I’ve studied it for over 45 years as well as having a close relative working around the craft.
And we both have our assumptions about a variety of puzzle pieces.
Occam’s razor; inductive logic; deductive logic . . . none of those remove assumptions. None of those are magic truth detectors.
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