Posted on 11/12/2007 3:53:44 PM PST by mdittmar
UFOs may be fodder for comedians and science fiction but there was no joking Monday when a group of pilots and officials demanded the US government reopen an investigation into unidentified flying objects.
The 19 former pilots and government officials, who say they have seen UFOs themselves or been involved in probes of strange flying objects, told reporters their questions can no longer be dismissed more than 30 years after the US case was closed.
"We want the US government to stop perpetuating the myth that all UFOs can be explained away in down-to-earth, conventional terms," said Fife Symington, former governor of Arizona and air force pilot who says he saw a UFO himself in 1997.
"Instead our country needs to reopen its official investigation that it shut down in 1969," Symington told a news conference.
Symington read an appeal on behalf of the group of who came to Washington to recount their sightings of UFOs.
"We believe that for reasons of both national security and flight safety, every country should make an effort to identify any object in its airspace," the statement said.
The group included a retired pilot from Air France who said he saw an enormous flying disc during a flight from Nice to London in 1994, an Iranian pilot who tried in vain to fire on a UFO in 1976 and a former US official from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) who claims a probe into a UFO seen over Alaska in 1987 was squelched.
"'Who believes in UFOs?' is the kind of attitude of the FAA all the time," Symington said.
"However, when I asked the CIA person: 'What do you think it was,' he responded 'a UFO.'"
When Symington suggested the government tell Americans about a UFO, the CIA official allegedly told him: "'No way, if we were to tell the American public there are UFOs they would panic.'"
The subject of UFOs came up in a recent debate among presidential candidates, with Democrat Dennis Kucinich saying he saw a UFO.
Skeptics say UFO sightings are merely aircraft or meteors re-entering the Earth's atmosphere.
yea, I couldn’t resist see reply no. 260; last or near last in the chain!
Your sidekick Kev is saying just that. I had you two confused earlier... lol.
The evidence I was referring to are the many cases of UFO sightings being proven to be non-alien in origin
Oh...So you're referring to "many", but not all that have been proven to be other than alien in nature. I guess that would mostly encompass all the hoaxes and pranksters. Yes those are quite easy spot.
I have found it's better to repeat what you say, just to be clear, so don't get excited.
A couple of questions for you.
Do you believe out of all the sighting ever, that it's possible that any of them could have been alien in nature?
Do you personally believe life in whatever form exists outside of this particular planet?
An interesting site re crop circles predicting commet type stuff.
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/anasazi/time2007g.html
Here is an easier way of saying it: Number of UFO sightings proven as natural, manmade phenomena, or hoaxes: many
Number of UFO sightings proven as alien crafts: zero
Therefore, just like whales that live on land, we can inductively reason that aliens have not visited this planet.
Do you believe out of all the sighting ever, that it's possible that any of them could have been alien in nature?
No, I don't believe its possible.
Do you personally believe life in whatever form exists outside of this particular planet?
I don't know. That is something that it inherently unknowable at this stage in human history. I am open to the possibility that in several hundred years we may be able to drill into the glacier seas of Europa and find undersea life. But there is no evidence either way at this point.
As for outside the solar system, I do not believe that faster than light travel is possible. Therefore, we will never know.
When the Sun dies in several billion years, we will most likely have colonized other planets. However, mankind will die never knowing whether there is extraterrestrial life outside of our solar system.
Not according to Jesse Marcel.
FWIW from the link above
More seriously, who might those crop artists be? And what kinds of advanced technology might they possess? Experienced researchers continue to hold many different opinions concerning such matters. Most of those opinions should be respected. After all, if crop-circle research has not taught us tolerance and respect, what have we learned? But for simplicity, I have summarized my own personal views below:
[this part didn’t copy and paste, for some reason] check out the link about oh, with the slider about 2/3rds of the way down from the top.]
Partially retyped here:
RETYPED:
How can these amazing things be possible?
1. No ordinary human, living on Earth two years ago, could have predicted that Comet Holmes would soon explode at a precise location in the constellation Perseus.
2. No ordinary human, living on Earth two years ago, could have predicted that Comet Holmes would soon become so bright, that its conjunction with Mirfak on November 21, 2007 would become a notable event. . . .
By sending us many detailed pictures of the outburst of Comet Holmes, over two years before it happened, those crop artists have clearly demonstrated that they can predict certain aspects of our modern future here on Earth: and that may be the most important point. Indeed, we have only five years left now until an end to the Olmec-Mayan Long Count calendar in 2012 (on a winter solstice). What might happen then, if anything?
Another crop picture from Crabwood 2002 told us in plain English: “Much pain but still time”.
##################
I find this interesting . . . and assertive of an other worldly hypothesis.
In addition to those who’ve been around such craft personally and assert that they are other worldly.
I'm just about there,I'm afraid.Ouch.
Yet on the other hand, you and at least one other here has stated that many or some of these sightings could be top secret government black ops craft, etc. Since you have alleged that many of these sighting could be government secret craft, do you feel it possible the government might have some evidence of their existence?
Do you believe out of all the sighting ever, that it's possible that any of them could have been alien in nature?
No, I don't believe its possible.
OK.
Do you personally believe life in whatever form exists outside of this particular planet?
I don't know. That is something that it inherently unknowable at this stage in human history. I am open to the possibility that in several hundred years we may be able to drill into the glacier seas of Europa and find undersea life. But there is no evidence either way at this point.
OK.
As for outside the solar system, I do not believe that faster than light travel is possible. Therefore, we will never know.
Do you believe in the big bang scenario? It is believed that the initial expansion exceeded the speed of light. However, I personally don't believe rocket powered craft will ever cut it for reasonable interstellar travel. There might be another way to travel between the stars though.
When the Sun dies in several billion years, we will most likely have colonized other planets. However, mankind will die never knowing whether there is extraterrestrial life outside of our solar system.
What if micro-organisms, or evidence of past life are found say 5 feet beneath the Martian surface in 20 years or so? Would you believe it if told?
Do you believe it's possible, that life, micro-organisms etc, could have been scattered, or carried off into space by extreme large impacts during earths ancient past?
To be clear here, I personally believe their is other life, in one form or another in the universe, outside earth. As a matter of fact, I think it would be more mind bending if earth were the only rock in the universe with life on it. JMO.
Don’t sweat it, I am hearing there are other procedures coming available, less intrusive etc.
from:
http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2007/11/09/01935.html
== = =
Excerpt:
Astronaut Dr. Story Musgrave, a Payload Specialist on the STS-80 Mission, was interviewed following the flight. As he viewed a videotape of the incident which showed lightning flashes in the atmosphere, the city lights of Denver, Colorado and other earthbound sights, he stated: “I don’t know what it is. Whether it’s a washer, debris, ice particles, I don’t know. But it’s characteristic of the thousands of things which I’ve seen. What is not so characteristic is it appears to come from no where. You would think that if it’s facing the dark side or facing a side towards you which is not reflecting the sun, you would think that you would see something there. It’s really impressive.”
Story Musgrave (STS-80).
During an earlier interview, Dr. Musgrave stated he attempted to communicate with ET life forms during each of his six missions. He actually asked them to take him with them. Now that’s an astronaut with a lot of courage. Dr. Musgrave retired after this flight from NASA. Since then he’s been spreading his considered opinion that alien life exists. When Musgrave speaks of this, it’s no great leap for one to assume he’s admitting knowledge of alien life. As the final slide of a “Grey” ET was shown during a recent astronomy presentation by Dr. Musgrave, he made this surprising comment: “These guys are real... I guarantee it!” Dr. Musgrave does know the truth. This author guarantees it!
Consider that carefully. These are world renown scientists making statements almost beyond belief. Dr. von Braun and others of his stature have the courage to disclose “sensitive” information, but obviously the leaders of the USA and the world do not. If billions could find a way of coping with the overwhelming threat of atomic annihilation for half a century, it is reasonable to assume we can cope with the knowledge of these “Other Intelligence’s” from the stars. We can cope with the fact they are visiting earth, and have been since the beginning of history. We must. Those still asleep must open their eyes. We Are Not Alone.
Yeah,the old fashion way is just a pain in the ass.
meant to ping to all
NEW O’HARE AIRPORT PICS
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread315010/pg1
http://hitsusa.com/blog/310/ufo-conference/
I agree with you, roamer_1.
It’s a marvelous thing to drive past an Amish homestead and to note they have NO electrical lines, and to see them going along the side of the road in their buggies and to think of the life they must live. For me, my focus is on being an overcomer to the end, with or without modern conveniences.
I agree there are Difficult Times ahead. In Luke 18, Jesus asked, Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?
When Noah built the ark, everybody laughed at him. When you and I and folks like us live fearing God and refusing to call evil good and good evil, they’ll laugh at us. Will we remain standing till the end?
No.
Do you believe in the big bang scenario?
I believe its a decent theory.
There might be another way to travel between the stars though.
Perhaps, but I believe if there is, mankind will not discover it for thousands and thousands (maybe millions) of years.
What if micro-organisms, or evidence of past life are found say 5 feet beneath the Martian surface in 20 years or so? Would you believe it if told?
If NASA had evidence of it, images of fossils and such, I would believe it.
Do you believe it's possible, that life, micro-organisms etc, could have been scattered, or carried off into space by extreme large impacts during earths ancient past?
Doubtful; I see no evidence that life can survive in a vacuum.
As a matter of fact, I think it would be more mind bending if earth were the only rock in the universe with life on it.
There's no evidence either way, and the rare Earth hypothesis holds just as much weight as the principle of mediocrity, so its simply a wash. I think SETI is a waste of money and an initiative built solely on faith and wishful thinking. If people want to listen, let them. But I wouldn't spend taxpayer money on it, I wouldn't ever invest any personal funds in it, and I don't think it should be treated as serious research.
Its fun to think about the possibility of aliens, and it might get some kids interested in science. But SETI, ufology, and related studies are more akin to religions than science.
Actually, science the last 50 years or so has been more akin to religion than science.
Sorry about the late reply, I’ve been busy on poltical threads.
Hint: If you would like the chance to make money and support the most conservative candidate in the race at the same time,
Why the smart money is on Duncan Hunter
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1926032/posts
Posted on 11/15/2007 3:43:17 AM PST by Kevmo
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Now, onto your post.
I went here to Wikipedia, and there is a reference to Victalen but clicking on it generates a weird result:
Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact title.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piecraft/Haunebu
.
.
Basically, in general I agree with the fact that flying saucer technology is based upon such experiments as performed by the Nazis in WWII. But I want people to read Vesco’s book because he’s the only guy that goes into the technology, which is pretty straightforward aerodynamics: Suction for boundary layer control, which is what I wanted to study in college but chose a different path. I had been accepted to the aeronautical engineering program at Cal Poly SLO but decided against it because all the aero majors I knew at the time could not get jobs in the field, and as far as I could tell, they never did.
I expect there to be a rather large disinformation campaign surrounding this theory, based upon my past experience as well as what I’ve read. So I didn’t bother to read through the Wikipedia article. Your Victalen is actually probably part of the smokescreen, but I do not have enough evidence to generate a compelling inductive case to that effect so I’ll just float it for now.
Gunrunner: No reasonable person could possibly assume that I was implying that I had evidence debunking every individual UFO sighting in history.
Dragnet: Your sidekick Kev is saying just that. I had you two confused earlier... lol.
***NO, NO, NO. That is NOT what I’ve been saying and you are distorting what I say. You continue to use straw argumentation.
Do you believe out of all the sighting ever, that it’s possible that any of them could have been alien in nature?
***By the mathematical definition of possible, where it is better than 10^-50, no I do not believe it. And when I say alien in nature, I mean an extraterrestrial humanoid type species that supposedly inhabits real bodies in real planets on real star systems flying real aircraft, rather than the supernatural types of explanations that sometimes drift into this part of the discussion.
Do you personally believe life in whatever form exists outside of this particular planet?
***Again goint to that mathematical definition, I have already answered that, spotting lots of orders of magnitude. In engineering, when you are off by 1 order of magnitude you got the answer WRONG. A flea does not knock over an elephant by virtue of its kinetic energy. My counter question to this question is: What does it have to do with the study of UFOs? It appears you’re searching to establish that there is some kind of debunker’s bias or something like that.
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