Posted on 11/12/2007 3:53:44 PM PST by mdittmar
UFOs may be fodder for comedians and science fiction but there was no joking Monday when a group of pilots and officials demanded the US government reopen an investigation into unidentified flying objects.
The 19 former pilots and government officials, who say they have seen UFOs themselves or been involved in probes of strange flying objects, told reporters their questions can no longer be dismissed more than 30 years after the US case was closed.
"We want the US government to stop perpetuating the myth that all UFOs can be explained away in down-to-earth, conventional terms," said Fife Symington, former governor of Arizona and air force pilot who says he saw a UFO himself in 1997.
"Instead our country needs to reopen its official investigation that it shut down in 1969," Symington told a news conference.
Symington read an appeal on behalf of the group of who came to Washington to recount their sightings of UFOs.
"We believe that for reasons of both national security and flight safety, every country should make an effort to identify any object in its airspace," the statement said.
The group included a retired pilot from Air France who said he saw an enormous flying disc during a flight from Nice to London in 1994, an Iranian pilot who tried in vain to fire on a UFO in 1976 and a former US official from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) who claims a probe into a UFO seen over Alaska in 1987 was squelched.
"'Who believes in UFOs?' is the kind of attitude of the FAA all the time," Symington said.
"However, when I asked the CIA person: 'What do you think it was,' he responded 'a UFO.'"
When Symington suggested the government tell Americans about a UFO, the CIA official allegedly told him: "'No way, if we were to tell the American public there are UFOs they would panic.'"
The subject of UFOs came up in a recent debate among presidential candidates, with Democrat Dennis Kucinich saying he saw a UFO.
Skeptics say UFO sightings are merely aircraft or meteors re-entering the Earth's atmosphere.
Ezekiel 1 describes a UFO. Come on let’s try to think outside the box...
AGAIN—IT’S NOT MY FAULT that you have evidently had no reliable close relative or friend working in the field to better inform you.
***I don’t rely upon my relatives, I rely upon myself. And I can change several people’s minds right here on Free Republic on this issue. All they need to do is read one book. Simple.
The whole field is vastly complex. I find your explanation INSUFFICIENT to explain vast chunks of evidence . . .
***I haven’t even begun with my explanation. What I have begun is the process of educating a few souls who would have open minds. Once they are aware of the facts and how they bear on this issue, then we can start to get into the explanatory phase. And you are right — the whole field is vastly complex. That’s why we use inductive reasoning rather than deductive reasoning. It’s not like we can go and knock on the door of the guvmint and say, “Gosh, I hear you have a flying saucer, let me take a look.” So we’re stuck with inductive reasoning, and Occham’s Razor is a powerful inductive tool.
INCLUDING that from my relative. That’s reasonably sound assessment of the evidence—not closed mindedness.
***That is anecdotal evidence. Strong, but not as compelling as a falsifiable theory such as I submitted to Art Bell when he got his flying saucer parts. How many of us Freepers can go to your relative and view evidence for ourselves? Maybe 3 or 4 if we’re lucky. How many Freepers can read this one book that I’m a proponent of, and make some progress on this issue? All of them.
You seem to have settled on ONE explanation—perhaps essentially from ONE BOOK. And you claim you’re less closed minded than I am. I think perhaps psychology is not your strong suit.
***Feel free to point to ONE BOOK that would change the way some hard headed rationalist would view the subject. I have it narrowed down as a start, but you haven’t. Psychology has less bearing than rational thinking — this is a process of education. I’m aware of certain facts that you are not aware of. It is your responsibility to come up to speed.
BTW, my PhD is in clinical psych.
***Good for you.
When did you start studying the topic?
***More than 30 years ago.
Actually, it would be much easier to control our governments than to control rats, since there are some things that rats just won't do...
Meteors do NOT “re-enter” the Earth’s atmosphere. Meteors ENTER, once. Usually, unless they skip over the top several times and slow down, but they only, generally, enter ONCE.
When they arrive on the ground (if they don’t burn up completely) they become “meteorites”.
Meteors that strike the atmosphere almost ALWAYS burn up, leaving an ionized trail of gases behind them. These trails are almost ALWAYS visible, and in some cases can reflect radio signals in the 50-70 Mhz range (in ham radio, we do something called “meteor scatter” bouncing signals off those trails).
Just thought I’d throw in some facts to that “Skeptics say” stuff.
Thanks for the comments and tid-bits of information.
In Sumerian, the "watchers" were called the "igigi". They were stationed in the "heavens" to keep an eye on things below for the annunaki. You are correct that it was a commonly understood term at the time.
Forgot to include Rick Donaldson’s story, which was why I cc’d him in the first place.
Basically he asked Reagan about UFOs, and Ronnie said, “I can’t tell you what I know”.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1923514/posts?page=56#56
Actually, it would be much easier to control our governments than to control rats, since there are some things that rats just won’t do...
***I nominate this post as the best one of the thread. Truly, LOL.
Have you read Bud Hopkin’s book Sight Unseen? I’m not sure what to make of it. I like Hopkin’s first book but his other book that he did in New York, I have a feeling that was all bunk.
I’ve been studying the UFO phenomenon for more than 30 years as well, actually, more than 40 now. But, I can’t honestly say I have formed a conclusion about this.
There IS indeed a vast amount of photographic evidence that has not been proven to be fakes, and thus can serve as a basis for things “that might be”.
Photos are always dismissed offhandedly as “it could have been faked”.
Yeah, but in some circumstances, in particular when you have someone like a police officer or fireman taking the picture there is more “credit than discredit”. Or when a political figure (such as Dennis K or the Az Gov) sees something, there’s something there. Folks who want to detract from a “ufo encounter” automatically as Kookieness have a very closed mind about the subject.
Certainly, being skeptical is healthy. But being a “debunker” is as bad as being a “believer”. These two positions are both outside the norm, and outside the bell curve.
A believer is someone who is practically a religious fanatic about a subject, perhaps someone like Shirley McLean is a good example. Or those folks who joined “Heaven’s Gate” and then killed themselves because they believed their saviors were hiding behind Hale-Bopp.
A debunker is anyone that belongs to the Skeptical Inquirer mailing list....
I’ve been both. I’m neither. I’m personally dead in the middle. Open minded, I’ll examine the evidence and if it is solid will use it. If it’s not, then it must be questioned.
I guess my biggest issue with so-called skeptics is that they automatically turn into name-callers when they think you’ve gone too far for them.
So, my advice is simple. Stick to FACTS, and read them, don’t form an opinion because of personal BELIEFS about something like this.
Do UFOs exist? Damn right they do?
Are they controlled by “aliens” or “extra terrestrial intelligences”... we have no way of knowing, or proving this at all. (And yes, MOST UFOs can indeed be explained, but there are large numbers of them that simply can’t be explained away as something natural or man made).
Sorry folks.
I believe that they are extra-dimensional.
So, my advice is simple. Stick to FACTS, and read them, don’t form an opinion because of personal BELIEFS about something like this.
***I am sticking to facts. And I have not had the opportunity, like you, to ask the President (REAGAN!) a question about UFOs. You might want to read the book for yourself because, like you, it’s squarely in the middle.
Do UFOs exist? Damn right they do?
***UFOs are Unidentified Flying Objects. There are zillions of those. Do Flying Saucers Exist? Yes. Are they man-made? Yes.
Are they controlled by “aliens” or “extra terrestrial intelligences”... we have no way of knowing, or proving this at all.
***That’s why we need to rely upon Inductive reasoning because you so astutely point out that Deductive reasoning does not work on this subject. What is the most likely explanation of an event — that a kid ate the cookie from the cookie jar, or that a magic fairy visited him and left a secret message in the form of teeth marks on cookies?
(And yes, MOST UFOs can indeed be explained, but there are large numbers of them that simply can’t be explained away as something natural or man made).
***Well, I’m going to start focusing on the flying saucer variety. They aren’t swamp gas. They aren’t Venus. Nor are they aliens. They are secret weapons.
Actually, I asked TWO Presidents that question. I got pretty much the same answer.
The former President Bush also gave me a similar answer. He said something about “You know I was once the Director of the CIA, right? Well, there’s a lot of things that I can’t talk about.”
That was a tacit denial that anything was ever going to be known, to me. I suppose in a way I can understand the need to keep things “secret”.
After all, if you reveal how you got some intelligence, then you give away a lot more than the fact you KNOW the information. You give away who gave it to you, why they helped you, and put them in danger.
IF I apply this logic to this “UFO conspiracy theory” (that is, that the government has been in contact, and still are with extraterrestrial intelligences) then it gives away to others around the planet that, for instance (assuming it is true) the “intelligences” from outside, took OUR side of the story.
IF that were true (which I’m not saying it IS) then outside intelligences are fighting for perhaps the same things we are, freedoms of all people.
PERHAPS in a round about fashion, this is why we’re seeing things like “globalism”.
When we ALL come to some consensus that a “one world government” is sufficient, we’re all of the same blood and DNA and we’re traveling in space, PERHAPS those “intelligences” will share much more knowledge with us and this planet than we can even imagine.
Now, don’t get me wrong... I don’t KNOW this is true, and I’m not sure I agree with the whole premise, but it’s certainly one logical way to look at it.
Funny as a straight jacket.
PERHAPS those “intelligences” will share much more knowledge
***And, more to the point, perhaps they will not. You’re using inductive reasoning here, what is the most likely to be the case. And it is far more likely that the UFOs flying around in the 1890’s at 100-140MPH were man-made rather than evidence of alien visitation. Or are you going to venture forth that 140MPH is de facto evidence of alien visitation?
Similarly, knowing that the Nazis had achieved Mach 3.5 with their V2 weapon, it is far more likely that some fast aircraft in the late 1940’s were man-made rather than alien.
Statistically...to shape this in the right form...out of billions and billions of stars/planets out there....we already know of one planet that can support life. Statistically, then it becomes an awful hard argument to stand up...saying that one is the final number and cannot exceed one...out of those billions.
I think the public is simply lying to themselves...in believing that no other “living” planet or species will be found. The inability to cope with this huge potential change is what drives us to “hope” that nothing ever changes our sole perception of life.
Not much different than 200 pound bipeds using steel sticks to poke little white orbs into 3” deep holes only to take them out and do it over again.
LOL WUT
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