Waterboarding Is Torture, Says Ex-Navy Instructor (SERE)

The Washington Post ^ | Nov 9, 2007 | Josh White

[RDTF]

A former Navy survival instructor subjected to waterboarding as part of his military training told Congress yesterday that the controversial tactic should plainly be considered torture and that such a method was never intended for use by U.S. interrogators because it is a relic of abusive totalitarian governments.

Malcolm Wrightson Nance, a counterterrorism specialist who taught at the Navy's Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape (SERE) school in California, likened waterboarding to drowning and said those who experience it will say or do anything to make it stop, rendering the information they give nearly useless.

"In my case, the technique was so fast and professional that I didn't know what was happening until the water entered my nose and throat," Nance testified yesterday at a House oversight hearing on torture and enhanced interrogation techniques. "It then pushes down into the trachea and starts the process of respiratory degradation. It is an overwhelming experience that induces horror and triggers frantic survival instincts. As the event unfolded, I was fully conscious of what was happening: I was being tortured."

-snip-

If Mohammed faced waterboarding for 90 seconds, Nance said, about 1.2 gallons of water was poured down his nose and throat while he was strapped to a board. Nance said the SERE school used a board modeled after one from Southeast Asia, though it had leather straps instead of metal clamps.

SERE attendees expect to be released and assume that their trainers will not permanently harm them. Nance said it is "stress inoculation" meant to let U.S. troops know what to expect if they are captured. "The SERE community was designed over 50 years ago to show that, as a torture instrument, waterboarding is a terrifying, painful and humiliating tool that leaves no physical scars -snip-

[mad_as_he$$]

In the jungles of a certain Southeast Asian country we had intel that thew bad guys were arranging a significant ambush of a large good guy troop movement. We captured a VC that had some papers on him that made us suspicious that he was more than just a grunt or a courier. The head native officer questioned him for two days. Finally drew his 45 auto and shot the guy in the right knee cap. After a few moments he asked the VC the same question, no answer, he shot the guy in the left knee cap. Asked the question again and pointed the pistol at the guy's private parts - VC gave the answer. The officer told the VC if he lied to him that they would skin him alive until he was dead. We confirmed the location and called in air. Lots of dead bad guys.

Now I know this sounds like a bad B movie but I saw it with my own two eyes. The key to torture if escalation of fear and an absolute belief that your interrogator will kill you. I think the VC believed that as long as Americans were there he was in no real danger - wrong. As it has been used I am not sure WB meets those criteria in every situation.

[MNJohnnie]

So you admit it. You don't actually have any rational bases for your opinions. Water boarding makes you feel icky and bad so therefore it must be wrong because it makes you feel bad. Gee nice you have feelings.

Unfortunately for you the world is a nasty place full of nasty people who will totally ignore your comfortable little rule book. The rule book only works when both sides abide by the rules. That the USA strives so hard to fight this war within the rule book is an example of the total moral superiority of our system and our methods of war fighting

That we are not utterly perfect in obeying the rule book as defined by ignorant emotionknow nothing web raters with a knee jerk hate for the current occupant of the WH and a total ignorance of the topic bothers us not in the least.

[MrB]

This same logic is used by leftists when it comes to dangerous criminals.

Better that 1000 dangerous criminals go free than 1 man be wrongly convicted.

Sure, that’s all fine and dandy in a cushy little bedwetting liberal world, until someone YOU care about is harmed, murdered, raped, robbed, etc by one of those 1000.

[arderkrag]

Nope, sure didn’t. I’m all for shooting people who run away.

[wastedyears]

***If Mohammed faced waterboarding for 90 seconds, Nance said, about 1.2 gallons of water was poured down his nose and throat while he was strapped to a board.***

What’s the capacity of the lungs?

[MNJohnnie]

1st rule of debate. When you have totally lost the argument, change the topic. Riding the issue down in flames, like you are doing, only indicates how ignorant of the facts you are.

[Badeye]

I ‘think’ its called ‘Real World Rescue’ or a derivitive, I can’t tell for sure.

I’m just trying to understand what this guy is all about, not attacking him to be clear.

That said, his casual reference in another article attributed to him about being ‘swiftboated’ sent up a red flag with me.

[scottdeus12]

“No, it’s not. But torture is wrong.”

Ok I’m going to chime in here.

So is it going to be your job to tell the dirtbags who cutt off heads, arms, fingers, etc. of Americans the same thing? Or does this only apply to us?

[snowrip]

Yes. It can’t be possible that most of the arguments in favor of an action I oppose are actually null and void.

I knew you wouldn't be able to understand my post.

[arderkrag]

You don't actually have any rational bases for your opinions. Water boarding makes you feel icky and bad so therefore it must be wrong because it makes you feel bad.

Sorry, but where did I say this?

[arderkrag]

Whether they torture is not the point. This is about the US as a nation.

[PLMerite]

“Torture is torture. It’s always wrong.”

Bin Laden’s buddies have planted a dirty bomb in the city where you live. The FBI has a couple of the gentlemen in custody. They found bomb-making plans and associated debris when they snagged them. The only thing the FBI doesn’t know is where the bomb is exactly but they do know it’s supposed to go off too soon to evacuate all the people who might be in danger. Knowing where the bomb is means they can evacuate those in the most danger first.

Your family is downwind of where the bomb might be.

Tell me you wouldn’t pull the guy’s parts off to save your kid(s). Or, more importantly, tell *them* you wouldn’t do whatever was necessary to keep them safe.

[Tallguy]

2: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure.

I don't mean to pile-on here. You've taken enough arrows on this thread. I suggest that there is a legal definition that varies from the dictionary definition that you just gave. The legal definition -- and I'll see if I can dig it up for you -- basically say that lasting injury must be involved. It is not clear to me that waterboarding leaves any lasting effects.

[flowerplough]

“... The bomb is set to go off in one hour. If I know where it is I can disarm it.

Can I waterboard the perp to find out where it is?”

Or do I hafta go round up a bunch of whiny, liberal weenies and “kneecap” them, one by one, telling the terror perp he’s next in line if he doesn’t start talking?

(Just funnin’, really. Wouldn’t be right to do that, would it? Don’t get madder.)

[scottdeus12]

“Whether they torture is not the point. This is about the US as a nation”

So what’s your solution to getting information out of known terrorists that could possibly save thousands of US lives?

[Joe 6-pack]

Not all of that amount goes into his lungs. Waterboarding works because causes the body to "lock out" the nose and windpipe making breathing just about impossible. The minute the water supply is cut off, the subject is able to breathe again; they don't actually fill the lungs with water (although a small amount might be inhaled). It's the perception that one is drowning...not that one is actually being drowned.

[MNJohnnie]

Screaming louder because your emotion based feelings on this topic have been prove fraudulent will not magically change your fictions to facts.

Nice you have feelings. Too bad for you they are based on an ignorant knee jerk partisan political bigotry not anything resembling rational thought

[MrB]

They’re probably worried that the “lasting effect” will be mental or psychological.

Yeah, the guy may turn into a psychopathic mass murderer if... wait a minute... he IS a psychopathic mass murderer.

[wastedyears]

According to Wikipedia, the total volume of the lung (doesn’t specify one or both) is 6 liters.

http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm

According to this website, 6 liters is 1.5 gallons. So if one lung can hold 6 liters of air, then the water would obviously overflow into the trachea and probably right back out the mouth.

This guy’s claims are false.

[Joe 6-pack]

"So what’s your solution to getting information out of known terrorists that could possibly save thousands of US lives?"

Frankly, I'm in favor of the car battery to testicles approach.