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About Evil
American Thinker ^ | October 16, 2007 | Selwyn Duke

Posted on 10/16/2007 3:49:18 PM PDT by neverdem

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1 posted on 10/16/2007 3:49:19 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

btt


2 posted on 10/16/2007 4:08:50 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: neverdem
If God doesn't exist, how can we label a position evil with credibility?

This is a mistake many religious people make - assuming that ethics and morality must be based in religion. Why? Ethics, morality and the concept of fair play are based in empathy, a quality that even some animals apparently share. Compassion is not the same thing as acting under fear of punishment by some divine disciplinarian looking over your shoulder.
3 posted on 10/16/2007 4:12:00 PM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: neverdem
Man has long asked how a loving God could allow evil to exist in the world.

It is part of the collateral damage leading to a God-worthy end.

4 posted on 10/16/2007 4:23:27 PM PDT by xzins (If you will just agree to murder your children, we can win the presidency)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

You are describing a preference...and a momentary one.

The animal could just as easily have attacked you. And the next time it might.


5 posted on 10/16/2007 4:28:24 PM PDT by xzins (If you will just agree to murder your children, we can win the presidency)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek
Compassion is not the same thing as acting under fear of punishment by some divine disciplinarian looking over your shoulder.

Perhaps, but I'll bet a lot of human beings have NOT done a lot of bad things precisely because they believe that there is a "divine disciplinarian" looking over their shoulder, and not solely due to genetically inherited "instincts".

6 posted on 10/16/2007 4:39:00 PM PDT by Recovering Hermit ("A liberal feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money.")
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To: AnotherUnixGeek
Ethics, morality and the concept of fair play are based in empathy, a quality that even some animals apparently share.

I believe morality can be sourced to the survivability of individuals and the survivability of the various systems they identify themselves with. What to do and not to do and when, in terms of survivability and viability is as much a spiritual pursuit as it is a conscious/ethical/legal effort. Believing morality is something that can be derived consciously, or even logically, is a mistake. The inherent complexities of the world we live in are beyond conscious comprehension.

God is described by many cultures as a conscious manifestation of ultimate authority; omnipotent and omnipresent. Our perception of God occurs and is formulated regardless of whether or not God actually exists. Our perception of evil occurs when we sense an affront to our perception of God. Evil validates that we sense God's existence but does not prove God exists. Otherwise, what would be the purpose of faith?

This is a fascinating article. I really enjoyed reading it and thinking about it.

7 posted on 10/16/2007 4:40:03 PM PDT by humint (...err the least and endure! VDH)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek
"Ethics, morality and the concept of fair play are based in empathy, a quality that even some animals apparently share."

That's because God created the animals too. ;-)

8 posted on 10/16/2007 4:53:48 PM PDT by magellan
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To: neverdem

Where the existence of God is concerned, some have questions that need answers while some have questions that answer needs. Only the questioner can really know which one he is.


9 posted on 10/16/2007 5:05:32 PM PDT by Emmett McCarthy
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

Humans are the ultimate predator...

Predators are not known for mercy.


10 posted on 10/16/2007 5:12:49 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (TAZ:Untamed, Unpredictable, Uninhibited.)
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To: neverdem
The two qualities that make us like God are intellect and free will...

Not to mention many others, but one of my favorites is creativity. Both are creators.
11 posted on 10/16/2007 5:27:32 PM PDT by Blind Eye Jones
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To: xzins
It is part of the collateral damage leading to a God-worthy end.

Very nice. Excellently and succinctly put. The playing out of the various outcomes of evil are part of the process of a fair and just God, while encouraging individualism rather than robotic obedience, addressing the charges of "unfair" and "arbitrary" in regard to his laws and moral authority. Ultimately, every intelligent being in the Universe will have had more than enough incontrovertible proof of the destructive outcome of the departure from the principles of God's government. This is what guarantees that disobendience or evil will never arise again throughout eternity.

12 posted on 10/16/2007 5:29:15 PM PDT by Prince Caspian (Don't ask if it's risky... Ask if the reward is worth the risk)
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To: Blind Eye Jones
Both are creators.

And science has possibly caught a glimpse of this reality as it discovers some of the mysteries of the realm of quantum physics and the creative power of the "observer".

13 posted on 10/16/2007 5:32:35 PM PDT by Prince Caspian (Don't ask if it's risky... Ask if the reward is worth the risk)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

“This is a mistake many religious people make - assuming that ethics and morality must be based in religion. Why? Ethics, morality and the concept of fair play are based in empathy, a quality that even some animals apparently share.”

No, we are basing morality on God, not “religion.” Your own belief is a blind faith assumption in itself. You have arbitrarily picked one animal behavior and called it a ‘foundation’ for morality, but we could just as easily cite opposite behaviors in the animal world. As Dr. Jonathan Sarfati pointed out in his refutation of Bishop Spong, saying that homosexual behavior in animals justifies homosexual behavior in humans, would require that we also approve of woman killing and eating their spouses, just like some spiders do!

Studying the animal world (nature) only tells us what nature *is*, not what it *ought to be*. There is no way to make the jump from science (what the world is) to moral standards (what the world ought to be) without relying on something transcendant; that is, something not sourced in merely the material world.


14 posted on 10/16/2007 5:40:09 PM PDT by Liberty1970
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To: AnotherUnixGeek
"Ethics, morality and fair play based on empathy."

Sorry, empathy is not strong enough to beat the baser emotions like fear, greed, lust, envy, jealousy, etc. A society can run quite a long time with a social code that is non-empathetic -- that allows and legalizes much immorality, much non-fair play.

There have been many such -- even MOST societies organized under potentates or legal codes had fatal flaws, morality-wise, fair-play wise. They can last a long time, but not forever.

15 posted on 10/16/2007 5:53:03 PM PDT by bvw
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To: Prince Caspian
Ultimately, every intelligent being in the Universe will have had more than enough incontrovertible proof of the destructive outcome of the departure from the principles of God's government.

All will know the long-suffering of God and the righteousness of God's judgement.

16 posted on 10/16/2007 5:56:48 PM PDT by xzins (If you will just agree to the murdering of your children, we can win the presidency)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek
Ethics, morality and the concept of fair play are based in empathy, a quality that even some animals apparently share.

Perhaps animals display empathy, perhaps not, regardless they certainly don't display ethics, morality, or fair play.

Besides, your assertion that those things are based on empathy has no support that I've ever seen. On what do you base your opinion?

17 posted on 10/16/2007 6:04:48 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Liberty1970

“There is no way to make the jump from science (what the world is) to moral standards (what the world ought to be) without relying on something transcendant; that is, something not sourced in merely the material world.”

Incidentally, that just happens to be a very acute critique of the fallacy of Marxist dogma.


18 posted on 10/16/2007 6:10:46 PM PDT by Menmy38
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To: Prince Caspian

The scientist can turn his eye inwards, but I wonder if science can and still be considered science. “Creativity” traditionally isn’t recognized by science, which deals with the material universe. It is on the prescientific level that the scientist, as a man, recognizes creativity. The usual assumption of science is that creativity, soul, God, etc., can all be reduced to the functioning of the brain — that the mind, consciousness and all its wondrous qualities is, in the end, a product of materialism. Ironically, science rests on prescience. In other words, science cannot support itself.


19 posted on 10/16/2007 6:14:58 PM PDT by Blind Eye Jones
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To: AnotherUnixGeek
Some living things on this planet have achieved three active sources in their living behavior mechanism: will, emotion, mind, for want of better terms for the soul. One animal on the planet has yet a higher aspect we call spirit, which has given mankind a sense of a higher dimensional state than mere self and other in the animal sense. By our reckoning it took billions of years to reach the point where one in the animal kingdom became capable of utilizing the spirit to function with the soul/behavior mechanism and thus the Creator introduced this aspect.

Having brought this highest (for now) order created animal into existence, there are certain instructional processes needed to perfect the new creation. If the value of free choice (to acknowledge the Creator or not as sovereign in His creation) is as we believe, self destruction must be one possibility. Don't choose that path for your spirit.

20 posted on 10/16/2007 6:18:41 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support. Defend life support for others in the womb.)
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