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Fear and Loathing in Iran [Iran and Syria snookered in buying air defense systems from Russia]
Strategy Page ^ | September 28, 2007

Posted on 09/29/2007 8:09:04 AM PDT by John Jorsett

Information coming out of Iran indicates that the military there is very dismayed at how ineffective new Russian anti-aircraft systems were during the Israeli September 6th air strike on a Syrian weapons development facility near the Iraqi border. Syria and Iran have both bought billions of dollars worth of the latest Russian anti-aircraft missile systems. Apparently the Israelis were able to blind these systems electronically. Syria isn't saying anything, nor are the Israelis, but Iranian officers are complaining openly that they have been had by the Russians. The Iranians bought Russian equipment based on assurances that the gear would detect and shoot down Israeli warplanes.

Over the Summer Russia delivered the first dozen or so (of 50) Pantsir-S1 anti-aircraft systems to Syria. It is believed that some of these systems are going to Iran, if only because Iran is apparently paying for them. Russia made the sale to Syria, despite $13.4 billion still owned for past purchases. Russia forgave most (73 percent) of the old debt, and is taking some of the balance in goods. In return, Syria is able to buy $400 million worth of anti-aircraft systems, mainly the self-propelled Pantsir-S1. This is a mobile system, each vehicle carries radar, two 30mm cannon and twelve Tunguska missiles. The missiles have a twenty kilometer range, the radar a 30 kilometer range. The missile can hit targets at up to 26,000 feet. The 30mm cannon is effective up to 10,000 feet. The vehicle carrying all this weighs 20 tons and has a crew of three.

By selling to Syria, even via the use of an enormous discount, Russia gets another foreign customer for their new anti-aircraft systems. Previously, fifty of these systems had been sold to the United Arab Emirates. Each foreign sales make it easier to sell these systems to other foreign customers. But the poor performance in Syria makes it much more difficult to sell any Russian air defense systems (which have a spotty track record in any event.)

As a practical matter, Syria is too poor to ever pay back the forgiven debt, so forgiving the debt recognizes that reality. However, because Syria has been a client state of Iran for decades, the assertions that Iran put up the money, and will get many of the systems, carry a lot of weight. Iran would most likely use these systems to protect high value targets, like nuclear weapons research facilities. However, if anyone should get photos of these systems in Iran, there would be quite an uproar.

The Iranians fear an Israeli air strike against their nuclear weapons development facilities. It was thought the new Russian missiles and radars would persuade the Israelis to stay away. But now the raid on Syria looks like a dress rehearsal for one a little further east. Since Iranian leaders have openly called for the destruction of Israel, one can't deny the Israelis a little self-defense. Thus the cries and whispers in Iranian military headquarters. A lot of this is leaking on to Farsi language email and message boards. There is much angst and unhappiness.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: airstrikes; iran; russianmilitary; sept62007; syria
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1 posted on 09/29/2007 8:09:07 AM PDT by John Jorsett
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To: John Jorsett

Chess Master Bump


2 posted on 09/29/2007 8:10:52 AM PDT by small voice in the wilderness ( Bumper sticker idea: Hillary/Obama Nation '08. Let the desolation begin)
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To: John Jorsett

“the military there is very dismayed at how ineffective new Russian anti-aircraft systems were during the Israeli September 6th air strike on a Syrian weapons development facility near the Iraqi border. Syria and Iran have both bought billions of dollars worth of the latest Russian anti-aircraft missile systems. Apparently the Israelis were able to blind these systems electronically.”

roflmao... roflmao... HAHAHAHA.... HAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


3 posted on 09/29/2007 8:11:52 AM PDT by Cinnamon
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To: Dog; jeffers

ping


4 posted on 09/29/2007 8:13:29 AM PDT by txhurl (Yes there were WMDs)
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To: John Jorsett
The Iranians bought Russian equipment based on assurances that the gear would detect and shoot down Israeli warplanes.

"Could"? Sure. "Would"? Another question entirely.

5 posted on 09/29/2007 8:15:49 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo ("Hidin' in a corner ...of New York City, lookin' down a .44 in West Virginy")
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To: John Jorsett

Syria got OWNED by 70’s era F-15s and ECM countermeasures.

As usual, Russian hardware, especially their software, is crap.


6 posted on 09/29/2007 8:17:02 AM PDT by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestu s globus, inflammare animos)
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To: John Jorsett
Russia forgave most (73 percent) of the old debt,

How did the old USSR ever manage to collapse with business deals like that?

7 posted on 09/29/2007 8:17:15 AM PDT by RightWhale (25 degrees today. Phase state change accomplished.)
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: Lazarus Longer

Not only do they not perform as advertised...

all the systems were covered with bright red LEAD BASED paint!

;^)


9 posted on 09/29/2007 8:19:40 AM PDT by Mrs.Z
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To: Cinnamon

guess they need Achmed to stand on the missile trailer, and tweak those rabbit ears just a tad more, maybe to the left this time, a littttle lower,....


10 posted on 09/29/2007 8:19:41 AM PDT by tm61
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To: John Jorsett
.....made the sale to Syria, despite $13.4 billion still owned for past purchases....

Back in the early 90’s my company was involved in a trade mission to Russia. They wanted everything from soup to nuts.

When asked to open a letter of credit, the Russian companies offered a financial document provided by the government guaranteeing payment for material delivered to places like Syria. The company would give the notes to a bank and draw payroll and what ever they needed.

Come the revolution they had tons of these worthless papers and nothing to show for years of work. They were bankrupt and didn't understand their own government had duped them.

The communists didn't understand the most important part of any sale is getting paid.

11 posted on 09/29/2007 8:20:32 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Moveon is not us...... Moveon is the enemy)
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To: Lazarus Longer
Pantsir-S1.

Obviously, the Syrians and their Iranian taskmasters purchased version one (The Russian word for 'version' must start with an 'S'). If they wanted to actually shoot down IDF, they will now have to purchase the Pantsir-S2.

12 posted on 09/29/2007 8:21:10 AM PDT by C210N
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To: RightWhale

see my post 11


13 posted on 09/29/2007 8:21:39 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Moveon is not us...... Moveon is the enemy)
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To: Cinnamon

14 posted on 09/29/2007 8:24:42 AM PDT by johnny7 ("But that one on the far left... he had crazy eyes")
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To: John Jorsett

but, but, but the nice salesman said they were guaranteed.


15 posted on 09/29/2007 8:25:54 AM PDT by shove_it (nonillegitimous carborundum)
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To: John Jorsett

Jack Wheeler wrote about this a few days ago....

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1903405/posts


16 posted on 09/29/2007 8:27:32 AM PDT by nuconvert ("Terrorism is not the enemy. It is a means to the ends of militant Islamism." MZJ)
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To: John Jorsett

Iran and Syria snookered in buying air defense systems from Russia

I’ll repeat the same thing that I said when they bought them.

They will be big smoking holes in the ground.

I never cease to be amused at the arab’s insistence on buying russian arms to defend against Western weapons, even after a dozen or so wars repeatedly show them in real life that they are going to die using them.

Even the Russians are not that stupid.


17 posted on 09/29/2007 8:28:47 AM PDT by bill1952 (The 10 most important words for change: "If it is to be, it is up to me")
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To: John Jorsett
SAM systems are of limited value without an air force. Like land mines, if they are not protected, they can be taken out and rolled back.

Current SAM based air defense systems will always lose, because the aggressor can work from the perimeter inward on their own timeline and only when they are completely prepared and ready. Any Iranian general that did not know this to begin with is an idiot.

18 posted on 09/29/2007 8:29:55 AM PDT by SampleMan (Islamic tolerance is practiced by killing you last.)
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To: John Jorsett

I know how Iran and Syria feel.

I bought a sonic device to keep away mice. It supposedly emitted a high frequency tone inaudible to humans but annoying to mice ears. More humane than traps or poison.

I found a mouse jumping up and down in the dog food bag right next to the device. Boy did I feel stupid.


19 posted on 09/29/2007 8:35:41 AM PDT by live+let_live
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To: SampleMan
Yea, with a 20k, 26,000ft range limit on the SAMs, I was thinking the same thing. What’s the range on our radar tracking missles?
20 posted on 09/29/2007 8:39:02 AM PDT by afortiori
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