Keep ’Em Out (Higher education has been oversold.)

National Review Online ^ | 9-13-07 | George Leef

[DesScorp]

In one of his New York Times columns earlier this year, David Brooks lamented that “Despite all the incentives, 30 percent of kids drop out of high school and the college graduation rate has been flat for a generation.” Brooks, like many spokesmen for the higher-education establishment, worries that the United States is falling behind in the international race for brainpower.

That is why we keep hearing politicians talk about the need to stimulate a higher rate of college attendance and completion. We’re in a global “knowledge economy,” and whereas America used to be tops in the percentage of workers with college degrees, we have now fallen behind a number of other nations. At a big education conference I attended back in February, former North Carolina governor Jim Hunt called this situation “scary.”

Sorry, scaremongers, but there is nothing to worry about. If anything, America now puts too many students into college, and we certainly don’t need any new subsidies to get more there.

Here are my reasons for holding that contrarian view...

[El Gato]

What’s more disturbing than a flat college graduation rate, which isn’t particularly disturbing, is the change in the majors of American born students. Fewer engineers, scientists and mathematicians (bad), more doctors (good) more lawyers (not so good), more “Business” degrees (really not so good). More “ethnic studies”, womens studies, and various other “made up in the last decade” majors, (BAD, really BAD).

[keepitreal]

I disagree. If you reread the post, the op said that she probably would have been better off financially if she had become a waitress. Another poster commented that she should go to a public school.

For your reference, this is the post:

I’ve been saying that for a long time, and often get accused of being elitist because of my opinion. But unless you are going to college for the life experience and for the sake of the education, the return on the investment these days is minimal without a technical degree or specialized MS degree. My niece is paying $30,000 per year at a private school so she can be a teacher, but also says she wants to stay at home after she has kids. How long will it take at a teacher’s salary to recoup that investment (or repay the loans?) compared to if she had just worked as a waitress making $15 per hour in tips. That’s like $30000 per year, and you can do that right out of high school. Even if she could make $60000 per year teaching, it’ll take 8 years to break even. She probably won’t even work that long.

[bert]

You overlook one very important aspect of college...learning to write.

The telephone is rapidily being abondoned in the manufacturing world for e mail. If you can’t write and write well......no promotion.

You can say what you want but if you haven’t learned to write at the college level your job selection is going to be poor.

[Myrddin]

The value of degrees is subject to the quality of the student, the field of study, the quality of the school and the standard of achievement of the selected student body. There is a vast difference between a "cream of the crop" physics graduate from MIT vs a "cream of the crop" education major at a public college. There is also the matter of being capable of doing something "useful" with the knowledge gained while earning the degree. Some people are great test takers, but can't poor piss out of a boot.

[neverdem]

thanks, bfl

[anonsquared]

A college degree is just a white collar union card.

[neverdem]

BTTT!

[hinckley buzzard]

If I had it to do over I would pick an activity or skilled trade I liked, get all the necessary training to do it well, take some business courses, and after getting a few years hands-on bottom-up experience, open my own business.

As one of the harbingers of the Baby Boom I bought the story that "you can never get too much education and the more you get the more you can earn." Maybe. But mostly it was a bill of goods. My mechanic and my electrician now make more than I do.(cuz they did what I described in the first paragraph).

[businessprofessor]

As a long time professor, I agree with the author's assessment especially on the traditional college setting. I think the whole idea of university education should be rethought. Higher education should be results driven rather than degree driven. Certification exams and portfolios should be used to demonstrate mastery of knowledge and skills. Most university degrees involve almost two years of basic requirements some of which are just indoctrination. Students who demonstrate strong writing and speaking skills should not need to take these courses.

I think that a large part of university education can be commoditized, driving down the cost. Online courses with master professors, learning centers, and other innovative ideas should be used to provide customized education products and drive down costs. The research emphasis of major universities does not contribute much to undergraduate education except for those students who want to pursue research and advanced training.

[Carry_Okie]

I'd happily challenge most any college senior to do what my 12 & 13 year-old home-educated children have done.

[Carry_Okie]

Students who demonstrate strong writing and speaking skills should not need to take these courses.

From your lips to my kids' prospective dean of admissions. :-)

The goal of our home school is to have them half way through a double major (one technical one social) before they turn 18.

[traviskicks]

FYI: A Modest Proposal To Abolish Universities

[SirLinksalot]

I have always been a proponent of PRACTICAL EDUCATION.

You want jobs that cannot be outsourced to India, the Philippines or China ?

Heck, there are thousands out there begging for people -- Plumbers, Technicians, Auto Mechanics, Electricians, Repairmen, air conditioning technicians, telecom system installers, network administrators etc. ALL NEEDING PEOPLE WHO ARE WILLING TO WORK WITH THEIR HANDS. These jobs pay very well.

When your airconditioning or heating system malfunctions, are you going to call someone from Manila to fix it because his labor is cheap ? Unless they invent a beam-me-to-the-usa teleporter, they will need to HIRE SOMEONE HERE. These jobs CANNOT BE EASILY MOVED OVERSEAS (unless of course, you're willing to hire an illegal to do it for you ).

At the end of the day, I haven't seen employers lament that they can't find enough English, literature, liberal arts majors to do their work for them. It is most often -- I don't have enough plumbers/electricians/mechanics. etc.

So, how about an emphasis on honoring people who work with their hands ?

How about more schools like these for instance :

ITT TECHNICAL INSITTUTE

or this :

Lincoln Tech

or this :

Katherine Gibbs Scghool

Just to name a few ?

Regarding learning culture/philosophy/art/history and others, any motivated person can learn them ONLINe right now. Also, we have hundreds of course taught by Ivy League college professors all over the country available at the The Teaching Company for you to purchase at less than $200 or even borrow from your local library, or buy from eBay at a cheaper price and then resell it at eBay when you're finished with the course, if you are so inclined to really get an education.

No need to bankrupt yourself or go into debt to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars to study art for instance, when you can get a good skill while at the same time LEARN at your leisure.

[olivia3boys]

If I could do it over—I have a BA from the University of CA, an MA from Georgetown University—I’d do exactly the same but I’d go for a BS and MS, with the same liberal arts majors, instead. I should have taken just a little more math/science.

I’ve found BS/MS degrees are just more useful. I’ve recently been looking at a career change (I work for the federal gov’t at present) to the health field, and have discovered that I should have gotten a BS.

[JTHomes]

I didn’t mean to imply that it was only an economic decision, but I agree with the article, a lot of people feel pressured into going to college thinking that is the only way they will be successful. They may not knowing what they want to do, don’t enjoy the challenging courses, and end up with a degree they can’t do much with. And worse, then they have slopped up all the liberal garbage most universities feed them. That is obviously not what happened to you. It’s clear you thrived on the academic challenges, and as a Freeper, you resisted the dark side. And as a side note, I applaud your decision to be home with your kids.

[JTHomes]

That was an awesome rant, and I totally agree.

[traviskicks]

bookmakr