The whole Bush Lied thing is a pain to argue against because, as is always the case when this issue is debated, the liberal is oversimplifying and omitting a lot of context. He wins the argument by omitting complexity; you win it by including complexity — which means you have the tougher job. The key, I think, is to blunt his assertion that “BushCo” lied by pointing out what was and wasn’t known at the time that Bush said what he said, and to point out that when he said these things there were other important voices saying the same thing. The fact is that there wasn’t unanimity on the key intelligence points, that there were lots of unknowns, that the situation was complex, and that Bush was doing what leaders have to do, which is to be decisive in the face of unknowns and complexity. The libs want to paint it like Bush was speaking falsehoods in a black and white context. It’s your job to recreate the complexity and lack of consensus in the intelligence in order to show that he wasn’t lying. You can only lie when the facts are clear, and the facts weren’t clear at that time. Your job is to highlight the unreasonableness of the Bush Lied oversimplification.
A perfect example is the aluminum tubes claim. Liberals love to cite this as a proof that Bush Lied. They point out that the nuclear experts at Oak Ridge disputed the claim that the tubes could be used for a centrifuge. But as you dig into it, you see that the Oak Ridge scientists were ineffective in making their case and that the CIA had good reason to believe that the tubes could be used as the administration claimed. At the end of the day the nuclear scientist guys were probably correct, but it’s obvious that that it wasn’t just obvious that they were correct, and the Bush Lied charge looks like an overreach.
This loon is a barking moonbat from the word go. Don’t even waste your time.
Here’s the National Intelligence Estimate from October 2002. This is what six different US intelligence agencies, including the CIA, DIA and NSA, were telling Bush about Iraq. If Bush believed it, he wasn’t deliberately lying when he repeated it.
http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/iraq-wmd-nie.pdf
Iraq’s Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction
We judge that Iraq has continued its weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programs in defiance of UN resolutions and restrictions. Baghdad has chemical and biological weapons as well as missiles with ranges in excess of UN restrictions; if left unchecked, it probably will have a nuclear weapon during this decade. (See INR alternative view at the end of these Key Judgments.)
We judge that we are seeing only a portion of Iraq’s WMD efforts, owing to Baghdad’s vigorous denial and deception efforts. Revelations after the Gulf war starkly demonstrate the extensive efforts undertaken by Iraq to deny information. We lack specific information on many key aspects of Iraq’s WMD programs.
Since inspections ended in 1998, Iraq has maintained its chemical weapons effort, energized its missile program, and invested more heavily in biological weapons; in the view of most agencies, Baghdad is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program.
Iraq’s growing ability to sell oil illicitly increases Baghdad’s capabilities to finance WMD programs; annual earnings in cash and goods have more than quadrupled, from $580 million in 1998 to about $3 billion this year.
Iraq has largely rebuilt missile and biological weapons facilities damaged during Operation Desert Fox and has expanded its chemical and biological infrastructure under the cover of civilian production.
Baghdad has exceeded UN range limits of 150 km with its ballistic missiles and is working with unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), which allow for a more lethal means to deliver biological and, less likely, chemical warfare agents.
Although we assess that Saddam does not yet have nuclear weapons or sufficient material to make any, he remains intent on acquiring them. Most agencies assess that Baghdad started reconstituting its nuclear program about the time that UNSCOM inspectors departed — December 1998.
How quickly Iraq will obtain its first nuclear weapon depends on when it acquires sufficient weapons-grade fissile material.
If Baghdad acquires sufficient fissile material from abroad it could make a nuclear weapon within several months to a year.
Without such material from abroad, Iraq probably would not be able to make a weapon until 2007 to 2009, owing to inexperience in building and operating centrifuge facilities to produce highly enriched uranium and challenges in procuring the necessary equipment and expertise.
Most agencies believe that Saddam’s personal interest in and Iraq’s aggressive attempts to obtain high-strength aluminum tubes for centrifuge rotors — as well as Iraq’s attempts to acquire magnets, high-speed balancing machines, and machine tools — provide compelling evidence that Saddam is reconstituting a uranium enrichment effort for Baghdad’s nuclear weapons program. (DOE agrees that reconstitution of the nuclear program is underway but assesses that the tubes probably are not part of the program.)
Iraq’s efforts to re-establish and enhance its cadre of weapons personnel as well as activities at several suspect nuclear sites further indicate that reconstitution is underway.
All agencies agree that about 25,000 centrifuges based on tubes of the size Iraq is trying to acquire would be capable of producing approximately two weapons’ worth of highly enriched uranium per year.
In a much less likely scenario, Baghdad could make enough fissile material for a nuclear weapon by 2005 to 2007 if it obtains suitable centrifuge tubes this year and has all the other materials and technological expertise necessary to build production-scale uranium enrichment facilities.
We assess that Baghdad has begun renewed production of mustard, sarin, GF (cyclosarin), and VX; its capability probably is more limited now than it was at the time of the Gulf war, although VX production and agent storage life probably have been improved.
An array of clandestine reporting reveals that Baghdad has procured covertly the types and quantities of chemicals and equipment sufficient to allow limited CW agent production hidden within Iraq’s legitimate chemical industry.
Although we have little specific information on Iraq’s CW stockpile, Saddam probably has stocked at least 100 metric tons (MT) and possibly as much as 500 MT of CW agents — much of it added in the last year.
The Iraqis have experience in manufacturing CW bombs, artillery rockets, and projectiles. We assess that they possess CW bulk fills for SRBM warheads, including for a limited number of covertly stored Scuds, possibly a few with extended ranges.
We judge that all key aspects — R&D, production, and weaponization — of Iraq’s offensive BW program are active and that most elements are larger and more advanced than they were before the Gulf war.
We judge Iraq has some lethal and incapacitating BW agents and is capable of quickly producing and weaponizing a variety of such agents, including anthrax, for delivery by bombs, missiles, aerial sprayers, and covert operatives.
Chances are even that smallpox is part of Iraq’s offensive BW program.
Baghdad probably has developed genetically engineered BW agents.
Baghdad has established a large-scale, redundant, and concealed BW agent production capability.
Baghdad has mobile facilities for producing bacterial and toxin BW agents; these facilities can evade detection and are highly survivable. Within three to six months [Corrected per Errata sheet issued in October 2002] these units probably could produce an amount of agent equal to the total that Iraq produced in the years prior to the Gulf war.
Iraq maintains a small missile force and several development programs, including for a UAV probably intended to deliver biological warfare agent.
Gaps in Iraqi accounting to UNSCOM suggest that Saddam retains a covert force of up to a few dozen Scud-variant SRBMs with ranges of 650 to 900 km.
Iraq is deploying its new al-Samoud and Ababil-100 SRBMs, which are capable of flying beyond the UN-authorized 150-km range limit; Iraq has tested an al-Samoud variant beyond 150 km — perhaps as far as 300 km.
Baghdad’s UAVs could threaten Iraq’s neighbors, U.S. forces in the Persian Gulf, and if brought close to, or into, the United States, the U.S. Homeland.
An Iraqi UAV procurement network attempted to procure commercially available route planning software and an associated topographic database that would be able to support targeting of the United States, according to analysis of special intelligence.
The Director, Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance, U.S. Air Force, does not agree that Iraq is developing UAVs primarily intended to be delivery platforms for chemical and biological warfare (CBW) agents. The small size of Iraq’s new UAV strongly suggests a primary role of reconnaissance, although CBW delivery is an inherent capability.
Iraq is developing medium-range ballistic missile capabilities, largely through foreign assistance in building specialized facilities, including a test stand for engines more powerful than those in its current missile force.
We have low confidence in our ability to assess when Saddam would use WMD.
Saddam could decide to use chemical and biological warfare (CBW) preemptively against U.S. forces, friends, and allies in the region in an attempt to disrupt U.S. war preparations and undermine the political will of the Coalition.
Saddam might use CBW after an initial advance into Iraqi territory, but early use of WMD could foreclose diplomatic options for stalling the US advance.
He probably would use CBW when be perceived he irretrievably had lost control of the military and security situation, but we are unlikely to know when Saddam reaches that point.
We judge that Saddam would be more likely to use chemical weapons than biological weapons on the battlefield.
Saddam historically has maintained tight control over the use of WMD; however, he probably has provided contingency instructions to his commanders to use CBW in specific circumstances.
Baghdad for now appears to be drawing a line short of conducting terrorist attacks with conventional or CBW against the United States, fearing that exposure of Iraqi involvement would provide Washington a stronger cause for making war.
Iraq probably would attempt clandestine attacks against the U.S. Homeland if Baghdad feared an attack that threatened the survival of the regime were imminent or unavoidable, or possibly for revenge. Such attacks — more likely with biological than chemical agents — probably would be carried out by special forces or intelligence operatives.
The Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) probably has been directed to conduct clandestine attacks against US and Allied interests in the Middle East in the event the United States takes action against Iraq. The US probably would be the primary means by which Iraq would attempt to conduct any CBW attacks on the US Homeland, although we have no specific intelligence information that Saddam’s regime has directed attacks against US territory.
Saddam, if sufficiently desperate, might decide that only an organization such as al-Qa’ida — with worldwide reach and extensive terrorist infrastructure, and already engaged in a life-or-death struggle against the United States — could perpetrate the type of terrorist attack that he would hope to conduct.
In such circumstances, he might decide that the extreme step of assisting the Islamist terrorists in conducting a CBW attack against the United States would be his last chance to exact vengeance by taking a large number of victims with him.
Confidence Levels for Selected Key Judgments in This Estimate
High Confidence:
Iraq is continuing, and in some areas expanding, its chemical, biological, nuclear and missile programs contrary to UN resolutions.
We are not detecting portions of these weapons programs.
Iraq possesses proscribed chemical and biological weapons and missiles.
Iraq could make a nuclear weapon in months to a year once it acquires sufficient weapons-grad fissile material
Moderate Confidence:
Iraq does not yet have a nuclear weapon or sufficient material to make one but is likely to have a weapon by 2007 to 2009. (See INR alternative view, page 84).
Low Confidence:
When Saddam would use weapons of mass destruction.
Whether Saddam would engage in clandestine attacks against the US Homeland.
Whether in desperation Saddam would share chemical or biological weapons with al-Qa’ida.
Uranium Acquisition.
Iraq retains approximately two-and-a-half tons of 2.5 percent enriched uranium oxide, which the IAEA permits. This low-enriched material could be used as feed material to produce enough HEU for about two nuclear weapons. The use of enriched feed material also would reduce the initial number of centrifuges that Baghdad would need by about half. Iraq could divert this material — the IAEA inspects it only once a year — and enrich it to weapons grade before a subsequent inspection discovered it was missing. The IAEA last inspected this material in late January 2002.
Iraq has about 500 metric tons of yellowcake1 and low enriched uranium at Tuwaitha, which is inspected annually by the IAEA. Iraq also began vigorously trying to procure uranium ore and yellowcake; acquiring either would shorten the time Baghdad needs to produce nuclear weapons.
A foreign government service reported that as of early 2001, Niger planned to send several tons of “pure uranium” (probably yellowcake) to Iraq. As of early 2001, Niger and Iraq reportedly were still working out arrangements for this deal, which could be for up to 500 tons of yellowcake. We do not know the status of this arrangement.
Reports indicate Iraq also has sought uranium ore from Somalia and possibly the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
We cannot confirm whether Iraq succeeded in acquiring uranium ore and/or yellowcake from these sources. Reports suggest Iraq is shifting from domestic mining and milling of uranium to foreign acquisition. Iraq possesses significant phosphate deposits, from which uranium had been chemically extracted before Operation Desert Storm. Intelligence information on whether nuclear-related phosphate mining and/or processing has been reestablished is inconclusive, however.
The guy is all over the place.
He is ranting like Captain Ahab against Moby Dick and is just as mad.
Best to reign it in to one thing at a time.
THis is where they fall apart. They think throwing a bunch of crap all at once ligitimizes all their moonbat madness.
When you come at them with facts on individual issues, they start freaking out. Its rather fun actually.
He says impeach.
Ok, ask this... FOR WHAT???!
Brass tacks. What legal grounds EXACTLY?
Clinton and a zillion other dems were accusing Saddam of all the same things Bush did. The language is sometimes so similar it can be hard to tell who said it.
Let them know as the Surge continues to make dramatic progress in Iraq, the Dems approval numbers will continue to plunge as President Bush’s will rise dramatically.
Pray for W and Our Troops
2. President Bush's approval rating is more than double that of Congress. That wouldn't be happening if Congress' rating was a reflection of the anger at him.
3. The political left has redefined torture to include playing loud music, placing underwear on the subject's head and splashing water in their face. So their protests against "sanctioned torture" can't be taken seriously.
The first time Saddam shot at one of our Pilots, he should have been eliminated,
Clinton let it go on for 8 years,
I use that on all my Democrat friends, only reason I needed.
Fortunately, da Bears start real soon, providing real material in an important area. Just get away from the keyboard while the weather is nice and prepare for the fall.
With democrats we have come to the point where the normal thing is to call for government to step in and do everything, for new and more laws, and forever to spend more and new money… no matter.
It is the normal thing to support abortion—and to ask why abortion wasn’t covered as an option by so-called serious journalists in a silly movie—a comedy about being “knocked up.” It’s hard to take them seriously but still we must recognize what has become normal today.
It is normal to regulate industry out of existence, to claim environmental concerns without basis in fact, to support unions—through their paid for politicians—stripping away the right to a secret ballot as to whether workers want that union to represent them.
It is normal to provide bilingual education that isn’t bilingual at all—but guarantying failure in America for those who do not learn to speak English.
It is normal to teach socialism and liberal liturgy in public schools.
It is normal to avoid enforcing the law on our borders.
It is normal to assume white athletes raped a black stripper with no basis in fact.
It is normal to promise people anything—and everything—paid for by taking earned money from productive citizens through taxes.
It is normal to assume every lawsuit filed alleging discrimination on the basis of race or sex has merit with no basis in fact.
It is normal to ban speech that is not deemed politically correct by the masters of politically correct speech—from such lofty perches as Professors in Women’s Studies or African American Studies—courses of study in academia that prepares students for a host of career choices rivaled by none other.
It is normal to push for legislation to remove or limit gun possession in citizens’ hands regardless of innocence—which has the effect of making certain criminals are always better armed.
It is normal to castigate religion—particularly if it’s a fundamental Christian religion and mock, vilify and hate those who believe the bible to be the inspired word of God.
It is normal to spit on troops.
It is normal to send money to our enemies if you’re code pink.
It is normal to shut down drilling for oil, prevent refineries and power plants from being built.
It is normal to control private property.
It is normal for men to marry men—as in exchanging vows pretending to be a couple—somehow equates to centuries of ceremony for purpose, for commitment.
It is normal to hate conservatives and all things conservative.
It is normal to not be responsible for ones own actions and behavior.
It is normal to eliminate competition in school and youth sports.
It is normal to revise history.
It is normal to bitch and whine about everything going wrong in ones life while not doing a damn thing about it, doing nothing productive or of value.
It is normal to use tax dollars to fund abortions, doctor’s visits and prescription medications for any and all ailments or perceived ailments anyone and everyone has—with no need to pay or ever think about paying it back.
It is normal to blame mankind—particularly exploitive Americans for causing global warming—even if that is “no way” true.
It is normal to dodge the draft during war—and in one case—become the President of the United States.
It is normal for our politicians to accept monies from any source and return special favors and never be held accountable for the payoff, the kick-backs—not even for the selling of our national security. It is more important to convict a man for forgetting about a conversation with one reporter out of a hundred. It is more important to convict border control agents for shooting the butt of a drug dealer. Damn.
It is normal to treat other religions with deference and respect—even special accommodations for training and prayer in particular—for Islam—in the same public schools where a student who wears a cross around her neck can get her suspended.
It is normal to expect the judiciary to rule the flavor of the day, the politically correct way mandated by the masters mentioned above rather than in constitutional law.
It is normal to be abnormal but call it being normal—and making sure to publicize your abnormality as much as you can.
It is normal for the vile, hate-filled left—the America-hating, profanity saturated, dwellers in self induced importance, socialists whose true aim is to take from you and me and give to those who don’t give, sometimes ever, and chooses to avoid work and responsibility—for those who worship their ideal of an authoritarian based government dictating every part of life, for the people who kill babies but hate capital punishment for murderers—to be put in the place of all stupid people—away from any serious public debate or discussion. It would be normal to laugh at them if they weren’t so serious about affecting our country, if they weren’t the ones teaching our children—if they weren’t the ones elected to congress and as the Speaker of the House—it is normal to retire them once and for all time back to wherever they came from—as long as it is out of our hearing range.
To those mindless sheep on the left, it is normal to see other countries as superior regardless of their unemployment, inflation, tax rates and lack of population growth as people flee such loony socialist utopias, escaping oppression, imprisonment or early death—to our country. Who wouldn’t like to live in the sub-tropic Eden of Cuba?
For many, being misguided to vote for democrats (socialists) is easy—what do you want? They vote who they are told to vote for by their masters—the race baiters, socialists in hiding and so-called progressives whose numbers are comprised of God hating, Satan inspired seculars who make a living working on eliminating any semblance of decency in our society—and force all to accept anything. Some want to eliminate goodness because they are seeking justification for their particular perversions. How sweet, inclusive and multi-cultural that is unless you’re a conservative Christian. You don’t count.
That’s what the left is—a bottomless swamp of bad ideas being forced on all of us. It’s not “live and let live.” It’s live and believe as we say, accept what we say to accept, shut up and pay us for our sorry existence, our misery, our immorality. Its screw you, America. And let’s hide the flag and call it avoiding one’s appearance of supporting jingoism.
Screw them. It’s time to do the right thing. As soon as we can, we have to do the right thing. I hope and pray there’s a chance.
I like the saying: "Never wrestle with a pig in the mud, you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it."
Truthfully, I'd have to respond myself. I go to other forums where the outright stupidity of liberalism almost hurts to read. You feel compelled to respond at the blatant, outright and downright "proud" stupidity.
The problem for the majority of them, is that they require a "spiritual awakening" in order to reassess their priorities. They won't do that until something happens that shakes them down to the very core of their humanity and shatters all of their fallacies.
You can't really do that with a clever post.
"Come on in! The mud's fine..."
If the electorate were mad at congress because they are not holding Bush accountable, then Bush’s ratings would be lower than congresses.
bookmark
( Any FR link BH?)
Every time I have had to listen to a Liberal spout off on any topic, I ask if his/her mother sued the delivery doctor for damaging them at birth with the misuse of those forceps.
I am ashamed of what has been done in our name and I find it is past the time when the House should move on Impeachment Hearings against Bush and Cheney. .....
Time to Impeach Bush & Cheney.
I'm sorry, but I'd find another sports website that discusses sports, not politics. Someone has an agenda and dislikes all Republicans, not just the administration.
A saying to reply to this idiot goes something like this:
Never argue with a fool. People observing the argument may not know which one is the real fool.