Posted on 06/28/2007 11:06:34 AM PDT by Sefton
Sen. Claire McCaskill (D) of Missouri: "Until our country gets serious about enforcement against employers, all the laws we pass won't make a difference."
Great point! But the evidence is sometimes hidden. There’s always the excuse “we can’t help it if forged doccuments are used by prospective employees.” It’s the insiders that will have the goods on companies that fall back on this.
Anyone out there think a “whistle blowers reward fund” would help? Any suggestions on how to start?
The problem with the employer verification of legal citizenship is that if the person has “papers” that look official, as far as I know, there’s nothing to check the authenticity of those “papers”. We already know the SSA isn’t giving info on the $$ they are holding for duplicate ss#’s, the IRS doesn’t report them, so how are employers supposed to? There has to be a system in place in order to weed them out but it has to start with the government first.
You’re absolutely right. My idea would be much more effective if the government would do a much better job of securing social security numbers and preventing the use of false or stolen numbers, so that collecting evidence against the illegals-using businesses will be easier.
But even without that, it will have a significant effect on larger businesses that now flout the law so transparently, in which the legal staffs and those managers responsible for compliance will be more empowered and motivated to discourage the use of illegals given the potential damages exposure.
I had my roof replaced (Insurance covered it) 2 years ago. When the workers showed up I told the foreman I had to see everyones green card before they could do any work on the house.
Needless to say... It was two days before they came back and started the job.
As an employer there are only certain things that help me establish residency.
How well they speak english.
Where were they born and raised.
A valid drivers license.
How long they have resided in the area.
And yes, call me a racist if you wish. Ethnicity.
Not like I am a big employer because I have 4 employees, so it is easier for me than large companies.
But many big employers abuse the system and they are responsible for the trickle down effect on small employers.
A few thousand dollar fine for a huge corporation is insignificant. For a small company it can mean bankruptcy.
So as a small business owner I can afford to utilize common sense instead of the political whitewash gender/color neutral our so called leaders say is the only way.
All the stupid laws about social security numbers are meaningless. As long as they collect some money they don’t care where it comes from or if the person is eligible.
Same goes for the IRS. When they don’t cross reference taxpayer ID numbers to verify duplicates, they can bring in more cash. Nothing like an illegal stream of revenue from illegal workers!! Al Capone couldn’t have been more proud if he had cooked up this scheme rather than evading taxes.
If our government had to refund all the illegally collected taxes on illegal workers, the amount of a refund would be hundreds of millions of dollars.
But they have stuck it in their pocket.
No wonder government isn’t into enforcing immigration.
They get a kickback and nobody files for a refund because illegals don’t file taxes.
Actually, the SSA does provide information, and employers could require it as part of an employment application.
Employers could insist the applicants provide a recent SSA issued Statement. The Statement would have the correct name applied to the SSN.
For information on requesting a Statement of earnings see http://ssa.gov/mystatement/
Asset forfeiture. I guarantee that with only a few well publicized instances of property (such as business, homes, vehicles) being seized for using illegal aliens the problem will pretty much cure itself.
Short shameful confession: I used to employ illegal aliens in the mid 90's. Not Mexicans but the ones that most people don;t think about; Irish, Canadian, Russians and others who violated the terms of their visas. I did this knowingly, with forethought and with the advice of an attorney. Why? Because there is no downside. Let me state that again with emphasis THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE.
Until that changes nothing will change.
They already do:
http://www.ssa.gov/
Click on "Business Services Online".
Good point.
I need some trees trimmed on my property, and a guy I met said he knew a guy. A couple of days later, he brought the guy over to look at the job.
Turns out he’s a Mexican dude, clearly an illegal, who understands less English than my 1 YO dog. I turned him down, even though it’ll probably cost me a few hundred dollars more to have it done by an American.
Thank you for clearing this up. If what you state is true, then there should not be ANY reason why an employer would hire someone with forged documents using someone else SS#?
To me this issue has always been about business’ desire for cheap labor. whole industries have converted to using foreign labor. Most of the trades, which were decent middle class jobs, has been lost to cheap outside labor.
The idea that Americans won’t lay sheet rock or pour cement I find offensive. Pay a decent wage and the workers will be there.
You make a strong arguement why our current policy of immigration both legal and illegal needs to be sh*t canned.
The central problem is we( USA) have people in this country who don’t belong here and we don’t know where they are at. We have 600,000 illegal alien crimminals and the government wanted to make them legal. An absurdity, I agree, but one that was about to happen. Until this government takes away or turns off the spiggott of benefits that lures these people, we are fighting a never ending battle. There are obvious things that can be done immediately: border fence, more border agents, etc. But then the attention is going to have to be placed on the interior of this country and that means employers who place profit over what’s right. Turning a blind eye to the problem as the Bush adm. has done, not cracking down on the document forge industry, not deporting illegals caught committing crimes, not having a system of identifying who has over stayed their visas, etc, has lead us to this point in time. Either the system changes or we as Americans will be swept aside by illegal aliens.
“...many illegals work for family members, or are in business for themselves, and have a net work of workers who are illegals and they are working...”
So, blow the whistle. Name names. Furnish addresses. Then blow the whistle again when INS does nothing.
I already have a stack of government paperwork 6 inches deep on my desk. It is the government’s responsibility (because they said they could do the job) to screen and admit legal immigrants into our country. It is not my job to verify any prospective employee beyond if they are qualified to do the work.
But I can also look and speak to a person and pretty much determine if they are true Americans. I cannot determine if they have false or forged documents. That is why we pay for law enforcement.
If I wanted to find illegals to come work for me, it is not hard to find some. And it is not hard to tell the difference either. So it is a complete line of BS that these large companies cannot tell the difference because they make accomodations to employ illegals.
If the fine was $100,000 per illegal employee, I think the company would definitely do a better job of screening applicants. The current fine of a couple thousand dollars in nothing because they can save substantially more over a period of time to offset the risk.
What I am saying is that it is not my job to screen people for immigration status. The goovernment has said they can do it better. When they can’t, they just change the law and place blame elsewhere.
All the documents in the world can be forged. But common sense is judgement rarely wrong.
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