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Free Is A Relative Term In America - Freedom At Issue (Steven Greenhut's Libertarian Musings Alert)
Orange County Register ^ | 06/24/2007 | Steven Greenhut

Posted on 06/24/2007 5:08:56 AM PDT by goldstategop

f I refuse to pay the full amount, I will become a ward of one of the biggest growth industries in the country: the government-run prison system. I am free to pay about half of all my earnings to the government, which will use those taxes to erect a multitude of offices and pay its workers salaries and benefits that are far more than most of us will ever earn. The government's "child protective services" workers are free to take anyone's children away from them based on their discretion. Parents are then forced into a totally secret court system, in which they must prove their innocence rather than having the government being forced to prove guilt.

We are all free to travel where we choose after government agencies search, poke and prod us. We can drive on government roads, pay government tolls, fly out of government-owned airports and pay for government-issued bond debt. We are free to pay for the government schools, which teach our children what the government wants them to learn.

The government can seize our personal property and not give it back even if we are cleared of any crime, and even place us in permanent detention, without any hope of legal representation, if the government determines that we are an enemy combatant. The government can bomb any government it chooses, based on any shoddy pretext (i.e., weapons of mass destruction). We are free to speak and write as we choose as long as the government doesn't decide that we broke campaign-finance laws or engaged in "hate speech."

The 18th century German poet Johann Goethe said: "None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." Am I off-base to wonder whether we are careening down that road?

(Excerpt) Read more at ocregister.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: classicalliberalism; freedom; government; libertarianism; ocregister; serfdom; stevengreenhut
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We like to boast we're free, but seldom do we realize just how much of time we spend our lives chained to the government and its manifold edicts. At some point, we ceased being the master and became the slave. Steven Greenhut presents us with some libertarian musings this morning. Our condition isn't as great as we'd like to believe. Yes, all of what he wrote takes place every day of the year in America.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

1 posted on 06/24/2007 5:09:01 AM PDT by goldstategop
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To: goldstategop

Absurd nonsense. You are free. Don’t like the searchs? Don’t travel. Don’t like the taxes, emigrate.


2 posted on 06/24/2007 5:15:15 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (If you will try being smarter, I will try being nicer.)
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To: MNJohnnie

Read the quote from Goethe again.

It applies to you.


3 posted on 06/24/2007 5:35:05 AM PDT by webstersII
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To: MNJohnnie
Absurd nonsense.

It's hardly "absurd nonsense." You should read Tocqueville's Democracy in America to get a sense of what political life in the USA was like before the government created by Jefferson, Madison, et al., was destroyed.

ML/NJ

4 posted on 06/24/2007 5:42:03 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: ml/nj; MNJohnnie

You can say MNJohnnie is not absurdly nonsensical all you want, but that won’t change anyth . . . oh, . . . never mind.


5 posted on 06/24/2007 6:00:35 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: ml/nj; MNJohnnie; leadpenny
a sense of what political life in the USA was like before the government created by Jefferson, Madison, et al., was destroyed.

Ironic that this writer is actually decrying the loss of freedom to dissolve an oppressive government as Jefferson etal intended. This option was forfeited to the might of the Federals in 1865.

6 posted on 06/24/2007 6:17:11 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: goldstategop

Freedom is a word you NEVER hear ANY of the candidates use. Its only home these days is on the net.


7 posted on 06/24/2007 6:19:09 AM PDT by DManA
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To: goldstategop
We are free to pay for the government schools, which teach our children what the government 'ACLU, 'NEA' and other 'far left secular humanists' wants them to learn.
8 posted on 06/24/2007 6:49:07 AM PDT by OriginalIntent (Undo the ACLU revision of the Constitution. If you agree with the ACLU revisions, you are a liberal)
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To: goldstategop
Our condition isn't as great as we'd like to believe. Yes, all of what he wrote takes place every day of the year in America.

LOL! And just where does the author of this piece think is a better, more "freer" place to live? Libertarian rabble is always about not being "FREE" enough, which usual means not being able to smoke dope anytime they want so they can get stoned outta their minds!

We are "Free" as one can get without complete anarchy taking hold!

9 posted on 06/24/2007 6:56:11 AM PDT by sirchtruth (No one has the RIGHT not to be offended...)
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To: goldstategop

I have felt this way for many years. Just have not been able to address the issue as well as written here.

Thanks for the post.


10 posted on 06/24/2007 6:59:33 AM PDT by wizr (Freedom ain't free.. Common sense ain't common,. Read Jeremiah, Chapters 18 & 19)
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To: sirchtruth
That's a caricature of libertarian thought. They are classical liberals who want the government to stay out of their business and out of their personal lives. So yes, they tend to think smoking marijuana, having an abortion and owning a gun ought to be decisions left up to the individual. Freedom means being being able to pursue activities of which others might disapprove. That's different from collectivist philosophies which all believe you ought to do what they tell you to do. That doesn't sit well with many people in the Western United States who are by no means social conservatives but still believe in true freedom.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

11 posted on 06/24/2007 7:02:49 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: sirchtruth
We are "Free" as one can get without complete anarchy taking hold!

Do you mean that you cannot imagine one law that we could repeal, without complete anarchy taking hold?

12 posted on 06/24/2007 7:05:04 AM PDT by patton (19yrs ... only 4,981yrs to go ;))
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To: patton
We could repeal the mass of laws suffocating our lives and still remain civilized. Half the government could disappear and no one would notice. People always make a case for yet more regulation. I have yet to witness one person making a case for more freedom.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

13 posted on 06/24/2007 7:07:10 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

In Ottumwa, Iowa, “It is unlawful for any male person, within the corporate limits of the (city), to wink at any female person with whom he is unacquainted.”

In Los Angeles, you cannot bathe two babies in the same tub at the same time.

In Carmel, N.Y., a man can’t go outside while wearing a jacket and pants that do not match.

In St. Louis, it’s illegal to sit on the curb of any city street and drink beer from a bucket.

In Hartford, Conn., you aren’t allowed to cross a street while walking on your hands.

In Baltimore, it’s illegal to throw bales of hay from a second-story window within the city limits. It’s also illegal to take a lion to the movies.

In Oxford, Ohio, it’s illegal for a woman to strip off her clothing while standing in front of a man’s picture.

In Carrizozo, N.M., it’s forbidden for a female to appear unshaven in public (includes legs and face).

In Pennsylvania it is illegal to have over 16 women live in a house together because that constitutes a brothel...however up to 120 men can live together, without breaking the law.

In Michigan, a woman isn’t allowed to cut her own hair without her husband’s permission.


14 posted on 06/24/2007 7:14:56 AM PDT by patton (19yrs ... only 4,981yrs to go ;))
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To: traviskicks

Ping


15 posted on 06/24/2007 7:16:32 AM PDT by KoRn (Just Say NO ....To Liberal Republicans - FRED THOMPSON FOR PRESIDENT!)
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To: goldstategop

Some could call doing WHATEVER you want anarchy.

There are some rules unless you own an island where you can do what you want without violating another person’s rights.

On an island, you can get all drugged up, get on your tractor while nude in the moonlight and howl to your delight and nobody is hurt or will care.
Off the island, nobody wants to hear you or to get hit by someone while they are drugged up on their tractor or driving a car.

I guess I consider this common sense to some point.

If you are in the middle of nowhere and don’t effect your neighbor, then good day.


16 posted on 06/24/2007 7:22:02 AM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: A CA Guy
That's the point.... which the late Peter McWilliams documented admirably in his book Its Nobody's Business. William F. Buckley was said to be horrified by parts of it. But the spirit is quintessentially libertarian. Its about the absurdity of consensual crimes in a free country. John Stossel did a TV special on it. I found it a riveting read.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

17 posted on 06/24/2007 7:27:18 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop
So yes, they tend to think smoking marijuana, having an abortion and owning a gun ought to be decisions left up to the individual.

...And that's the point. If those things are left up to individuals with no sense of "responsibility" then you have anarchy, a crumbling society...that would be the ultimate end game to libertarianism.

You can not truly have a "FREE" society without standards and accountability. Libetarians don't seem to know history very well and those societies that allowed the "freedom" with no consequences to do these things and how it torn them apart and how they failed miserably.

I think this gets into more of a right/wrong argument on morales than anything else.

18 posted on 06/24/2007 7:39:33 AM PDT by sirchtruth (No one has the RIGHT not to be offended...)
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To: patton
Do you mean that you cannot imagine one law that we could repeal, without complete anarchy taking hold?

What??? This is about morales and responsibility, not laws.
That's why "UNDER GOD" is so vitaly important to even allow a
FREE society exist, especially in America!

19 posted on 06/24/2007 8:02:15 AM PDT by sirchtruth (No one has the RIGHT not to be offended...)
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To: goldstategop

Surprise, surprise! Americans are no better at socialism than any other benighted nation.

The unique twist to your system is that your politicians have built a socialist order whilst claiming all the time that they were doing it to fight communism.

Ya gotta give your slick Yankee lawyers credit - they’re the fearless commmissars of Soviet America!


20 posted on 06/24/2007 8:52:37 AM PDT by headsonpikes (Genocide is the highest sacrament of socialism.)
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