Romney: Attacks On Mormon Religion Troubling

MHGinTN, you can’t equate the “religion of peace” to the true Gospel of Christ, so don’t even try. So many of these claims that you have against Joseph Smith fall apart when compared to biblical prophets. It’s just makes me yawn, to be honest.

What is boils down to me, besides the personal witness that I have from the Holy Ghost, is that I need to judge the true religion from it’s fruits. You and so many of your FRiends keep looking at the tree, the branches, dig up the roots, and get your hands (and minds) dirty in the digging up process. It’s very clear from the scriptures that the fruit is where we are supposed to look to find the truth, not the tree, or the roots.

Look at the fruits my FRiend. Look at what a follower of Christ is supposed to do, act, and live. I have done so, as have millions of others.

I’m afraid that others are simply trying to BARK up the wrong TREE... Pun intended...

This is one of the reason those who practicing LDS have temple marriages because marriage is sacred and not common or common language is used by those who take their covenants serious!

You talk about the daugthers of Israel like some thing common

This was one of my blessings

Have confidence that our Heavenly Father will help you to carry every burden that is placed upon you, and to move forward in life to become a radiant and lovely daughter of His.

The Lord does not speak of the women or his daughter as in the ways of some of your tawdry minds!

FC,

“I missed the part in the account of the stoning
of Stephen where he was armed with a Saturday
Night Special and managed to get off a couple
shots at the Saul before succumbing to the
stoning...

ampu”

Then you obviously also missed the part where after Judas betrayed Jesus, Simon Peter cuts off the ear of the slave Malchus, servant Caiaphas, the high priest. Jesus then said “all who live by the sword shall die by the sword”, whereupon Jesus also stuck a shiv in Malchus for good measure before jumping out a window.

Unless ya knows your Joseph Smith inspired Mormon theology, this wouldn’t make any sense at all.

I Said: “I find your post to violate most of the rules of posting mane calling, slander,”
You Said: I called you no names. But we are quite used to you “claiming” name calling and slander in order to try and win by innuendo. You can nowhere find in my previous post a single sentence where I call you a buffoon, a liar, a jackanape, or any of the other terms I might use if I were in the business of gratuitous slander, so you stand corrected in your shell game.

LOL!, I'll have some fun here cataloging your Faux pas.
You routinely call me, my church and my prophets names, slander us and i'll just count from here down in the post.

I Said: “no supporting documentation while stating opinions as fact,”
You Said: Come now, you base everything you say on a book so self-inconsistent that it gives strict documentation a black eye and a kick in the rear. Besides, you’ve made it clear that no evidence presented by the antis will ever be accepted by you (you cannot do so, else the whole Mormon house of cards would fall down).
This is a good example of an unsubstantiated statement, care to give an example? Guess not, because you didn't you didn't need to list them all, just one would have made this statement credible, none = no credibility.

I Said: “IMHO there is little substance to your post.”
You Said: It wasn’t meant to be a substantive document rehashing the last three months of evidence given by myself and others that Joseph Smith was a philandering, glass gazing, tinpot general, false prophet and general scalliwag. I assumed that anyone who had read through what would be a hundred pounds of documentation would have the mental capacity to realize Joseph Smith was just a carni scamster. But since you aren’t capable of that, then I must assume you are a lost cause and that if Brigham Young said there were aliens on the dark side of the moon, you’d believe him.
Oh, where to begin, i know, I'll tat things in order

You intended to post a post with little substance, but lots of invective, I'll let this statement just stand as it is.
You call Joseph Smith a philander, when no evidence you have posted stuck because it was all lies and you believed them. (Oh and this is name calling...)
"Glass gazing" Even when Urim and Thummim are Biblical, and were used in the Bible for divining, OK, as for me and the Mormons, we will stick with the Bible (who'd a thunk) (Oh and this is name calling...)
"Tinpot General" He commanded an army of 5,000 men, you? (Oh and this is name calling...)
"False Prophet" One mans PRophet is another man's False prophet, it's just not polite to call them names.
"General Scaliwag" General name calling (he's a bad man mommy, a bad man)
"carni scamster" is this name worse than general scaliwag, or vice versa?
You now questions my intelligence (that's name calling, and denigrating in one fell swoop)
You now declare Brigham young to have talked about aliens (while it might be considered humor, it is also inferring that he did, and a lie denigrating a great man.)

Wow, nine posting rule violations in one paragraph, you must be proud of that record.

You Said: Since it is clear that in your mind there is literally NO act by Joseph Smith or the Prophets that followed him that was in error (they being Gods-to-be after all), there is literally zero reason to present new data to you (though that is not the case with others). Go read the last few thousand post threads if you want even More evidence.**********************************
10. Now you attribute some kind of Mormon doctrine of infallibility to us, you have the wrong church. I have read your "Evidence" and refuted most if not all of it, but that is a matter of opinion.

There is an idiom in english "There are none so blind as those who will not see" now you undoubtably see this as supporting your position, while I am the one using it. I wonder if you will understand that my perspective is just as valid (or more so) than yours, or if you will just assume you are correct in your perspective and there are no others perspectives.

Regarding the Nauvoo Expositor:
FC:The Nauvoo Expositor’s description of Joseph and Hiram’s running a tin-pot dictatorship is true to form.
DU: ROTFLOL! The Nauvoo expositor was specifically set up to print lies and stir up controversy with the Mormons! To quote them as some sort of authority means you either didn’t research them, or well, I’ll leave that up to the readers
Oh please, I guess in that case you believe FreeRepublic should be destroyed as well, because it has graciously given voice to those of us who according to you “print lies and stir up controversy with the Mormons!” Joseph Smith and brother Hiram simply had the Nauvoo Expositor press destroyed when it began to reveal they were harboring fugitives, stealing wives, involved in land speculation and voter intimidation. I assume since Joseph Smith was such a saint, you’d follow in his footsteps and have FreeRepublic shut down as well.
I have absolutely no desire to have FR shut down, FR is a bright spot in the already better illuminated world of information when compared to the murky darkness of the MSM.

One of the reasons FR is loved by conservatives is because of the reason displayed by most of the posters here, Some posters get quite unreasonable when it comes to religion, even to the point of attacking other peoples religion, it's interesting actually from a human relations perspective to see where these people fall on actually working with these people of other religions, but I will not report my conclusions here.

Oh, and 11. Harboring Fugitives 12. Stealing wives 13. voter intimidation

You Said: But go ahead and keep discussing the backwater nasty black holes of Mormon history, we can certainly continue in that swamp land for eternity. ***************************************
Slander again for number 14.

You Said: FC: The polygynous/polyandrous adultery thing, especially with a 14 year old pimped by papa Heber Kimbal is thoroughly disgusting.
Pimped by papa, you have a singularly revolting way of phrasing things, never the less, this is a slander for number 15.

I Said: DU:Mary, you know, Jesus’ mother was 15 when he was born. I have seen estimates as low as 13, but 15 is what the Catholics say. Two of the 14 year olds were were WIDOWS when Joseph married them, The other two’s husbands were missing and presumed dead.
You Said: Wow, that sure makes it all right then. Of course, the Kimball girl was convinced BY HER FATHER to be Smith’s wife, and since Heber was a church leader himself, I doubt she was starving. And I guess all the other founding Father’s were just taking in waifs out of the goodness of their hearts. Why don’t you go do a search for Joseph Smith’s love letters to see how he was sneaking out on Emma to do the fandango out of the goodness of his heart.

Helen Mar Kimbal spent much of her life defending the practice of polygamy, neither she not Joseph ever said they slept together, indeed, they lived apart, had no children together, yet you ascribe the basest of motives and impute worse based on what is at best only conjecture on your part.
Now you accuse Joseph of sneaking out on emma, not true, she knew about the polygamy, and had to agree to it. (slander #15)

I Said: “Have a good day now.”
You Said: Well, at least I’ll be honest, since you are in fact wishing me a bad day, I will do the same to you.
I never wished you a bad day brother, you now attribute pettiness, interpret my words to mean the opposite of what I said, lets see, that's 16 and 17. You Said: The real problem for you is that you’ve begun to realize that these huge threads have exposed thousands of readers to the shadowy underworld of Mormon history and pseudo-prophecy. If your occult world view of seer stones, brass orbs, magic underwear, secret handshakes, etc. is correct, then the rest of us really are assinine apostates doomed to hell. Obviously it just causes you a world of frustration not to be able to shout “damn you all to hell you heathen”.

You tell me what I am thinking (If I need the help, I'll call, don't wait up...)
"pseudo-prophecy" can you spell slander?
"Your occult world view" LOL, that's not calling me anything, now is it?
"magic underwear" attribution again, I never said it was magic, but it does remind us of a covenant, and the covenants with God have power, but the underwear is just cloth, I can be just as blessed if they are not available. Tell me, how is that different than a priests collar, or a nun's habit, or a Jews keppah? (SP?)
Secret handshakes, like the Shriners, Masons, elks, and most kids clubs have? (this again is attribution of a meaning we do not place on things.)
Mormons do not believe that the rest of the world is "Doomed to hell" (attribution again) We spend hours and hours doing genealogy, and missionary work just helping others who are not Mormon because we are commanded to. Mormonism is the fairest religion out there with what we believe will happen to unbelieve.
I have never been wished to dam you to hell FC, (its the projection and attribution thing again) I have sincerely prayed for you, and wished you the Joy that daily fills my heart, but you reject it, so I am left just praying for you. you have never bothered me so much that I felt the need to use expletives for I have a large and well worn vocabulary.

You Said: But I suspect that day will come, you will reveal your true colors.
I like dark blues with Grey interiors on cars, brunettes and freckles, is that what you mean?

You Said: Hey, how’s that Romney guy doing in the polls, a God like him should have already skyrockedted to the top.

Actually I'm a Fred Head ( Go Fred Thompson )<-- My true colors since you asked... (Dang, it won't let me turn the background charcoal in the preview, hope it will come through in the real deal.)

Where have you been I thought you deserted the ship!:)

Actually, it was a 6 barrel revolver smuggled to him, no doubt in hope that the Mormon militia General Joseph Smith commanded would come to his rescue. So, it is quite possible the gentile mob merely short circuited the Mormon militia mob from killing the jailers and setting off a seccessionary mini-war.

Your logic escapes me, Joseph Smith had just prophesied his own death, yet now he is going to use a pepperbox to hold the 200 or so armed men off until the militia he ordered not to come, came? and what miniwar, if JS had wanted a war, all he had to do was arrest the people who came to arrest him in Nauvoo, he definatly had the upper hand htere, but that is not what the lord wanted. Josph's testimony had to be selaed by his own blood.
Heb. 9: 16-17

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Your assumptions here as in other places leaves much to be desired by a logical mind.

Where have you been I thought you deserted the ship!:)

Crunch time, I have a web site going live...

Hey, it puts bread on the table...

Placemark!

My FRiend, you’ve addressed it all, but I wouldn’t go so far as to agree you’ve refuted it all. But expecting you to refute a cartoon is beyond the scope.

Here is a link to a FAIR review of the Book, they hit a lot more points and this way no one has to redo their work.

The truth about "The God Makers"

So tell me Elsie, do you believe & subscribe to the Nicene & Athanasian creeds?

I believe my subscription has run out.

You folks are just HUNG UP on 'creeds'; aren't you?

Yet, you have 13 Articles of Faith!

Strange!

(You have thought them two 'Personages' would have told JS at his initial meeting that those 'professors' teach doctrines of men BECAUSE THE BOOK THEY USE IS MISTRANSLATED AND STUFF HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM IT!

But, alas, they did not.)

.As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Which One of the Three?

"The Lord does not speak of the women or his daughter as in the ways of some of your tawdry minds!"

Remember, I'm the guy who gets into trouble for casting the first stone not at the woman, but at St. Paul because of 1 Timothy.

You asked for the Biblical basis for paying tithes as if it didn’t exist.

No; I did not. I asked to be shown the COMMAND FORM GOD to do it.

It does and you shown the scripture where we are commanded by the Lord to pay tithes.

Sorry; but there was no COMMAND FROM GOD shown in those Scriptures.

Nothing in your scriptures refute the principle of paying tithes. In fact, it doesn’t even mention tithes.

I didn't say it did.

Indeed, the paying of tithes is also contained in Hebrews 7 where it talks about paying the tenth part.

Indeed it does; as the book is DIRECTED at HEBREWS, who thought they knew ALL ABOUT 'keeping the law'.

Acts 15:4-31
4. When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
5. Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."
6. The apostles and elders met to consider this question.
7. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.
8. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.
9. He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.
10. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
11. No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."
12. The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them.
13. When they finished, James spoke up: "Brothers, listen to me.
14. Simon has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself.
15. The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16. "`After this I will return and rebuild David's fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it,
17. that the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things'
18. that have been known for ages.
19. "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
20. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
21. For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."
22. Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers.
23. With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings.
24. We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.
25. So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul--
26. men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27. Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing.
28. It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:
29. You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.
30. The men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter.
31. The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message.

Kinda makes ME glad I'm a GENTILE; for I saw NO mention of TITHES in the list.

Now then; do YOU regularly pay your FULL TITHE as the LDS organization has commanded it?

Now that you’ve expressed your disagreement with ladylawyer’s post, please tell us what happens to all the good folks who have lived (or will live) on Earth and who never accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and were born again?

AND???

If you have a problem with YOUR description, you should take it up with yourself.

It seems as though there is a 'problem' with the QUESTION!!

How about you AMPU, out of curiousity, do you believe in the Nicene & Athanasian creeds & what is espoused therin?

I detect a certain train of thought here... or a talking point!

...before their 12am curfew...

They have to be in bed at NOON?? ;^)

http://physics.nist.gov/News/Releases/questions.html

Once you see those, you realize where he got many of the ideas of “restoration”, etc.

Why...

He got it straight from the ~~horses~~ Angel's mouth!

--MormonDude

Nope, but you requesting “silly nitpick” be put on “the list” was.

HUH???

To: Elsie

~”Oh? Was 1087 addressed to YOU?”~

Nope, but you requesting “silly nitpick” be put on “the list” was.

Talk to me when you’re ready for primetime. I look forward to it.

1,413 posted on 06/30/2007 12:07:57 PM CDT by tantiboh

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To: tantiboh

Good grief... Elsie, I’m about ready to disengage with you. It’s like trying to deal with a teenager.

Oh? Was 1087 addressed to YOU?

Well then you may just want to Hie Thee to Kolob!

1,382 posted on 06/30/2007 8:21:42 AM CDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

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To: greyfoxx39; Elsie

Good grief... Elsie, I’m about ready to disengage with you. It’s like trying to deal with a teenager.

“Teenager.” Greyfoxx, you might want to jot that down, too.

1,274 posted on 06/29/2007 5:20:59 PM CDT by tantiboh (...if...this work be of men, it will come to nought; But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it...)

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To: Elsie

Where’d the LIST go?

Silly nitpick? You sure? Well, if you say so.

1,087 posted on 06/29/2007 8:10:55 AM CDT by greyfoxx39 (Duct tape is like the Force, it has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together)

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To: Elsie

Where’d the LIST go?

1,084 posted on 06/29/2007 7:50:31 AM CDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

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To: tantiboh

Silly Nitpick?

We are talking about somewhat archaic terms here.

Then it's time for a NEW translation, of the most perfect book in the world, so that 'archaic' terms are CLEAR!

Check this out:

http://m-w.com/dictionary/want

For a little more clarity, select the noun from the list.

Kinda hard to do, for there are NO nouns IN the list!

want

3 entries found for want.
To select an entry, click on it.

1,060 posted on 06/29/2007 6:42:43 AM CDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

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To: Elsie

~”You’d think it’d be in according with their NEEDS!!!”~

That’s kind of a silly nitpick, Elsie.

To say a person is “wanting” of something, can easily mean they need it. We are talking about somewhat archaic terms here.

Check this out:

http://m-w.com/dictionary/want

For a little more clarity, select the noun from the list.

966 posted on 06/28/2007 5:44:20 PM CDT by tantiboh (...if...this work be of men, it will come to nought; But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it...)

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I think our train of thought has jumped the track!

Yes, but they are still Christians.

The question was whether they'd be MORMONS if they didn't jump thru the right hoops.

You admitted their are certain requirements TO BE CALLED AN LDS MEMBER; so why is it so hard for you to figure out there are CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS to be called a CHRISTIAN??

Your organization VEHEMETLY disavows those who call themselves MORMON, yet still practice polygamy.

Why?

Do they not BELIEVE exactly like the REST of the LDS members do??

What POSSIBLE grounds does headquarters have for saying, "They are NOT LDS'!"

Just as a Catholic doesn't have to subscribe to the beliefs of a Southern Baptist to be called a Christian.

He does if he wishes to be called SOUTHERN BAPTIST!