Posted on 06/23/2007 12:21:46 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
Pro-Darwin Biology Professor Laments Academia's "Intolerance" and Supports Teaching Intelligent Design
Charles Darwin famously said, "A fair result can be obtained only by fully balancing the facts and arguments on both sides of each question." According to a recent article by J. Scott Turner, a pro-Darwin biology professor at SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry in Syracuse, New York, modern Neo-Darwinists are failing to heed Darwin's advice. (We blogged about a similar article by Turner in The Chronicle of Higher Education in January, 2007.) Turner is up front with his skepticism of intelligent design (ID), which will hopefully allow his criticisms to strike a chord with other Darwinists.
Turner starts by observing that the real threat to education today is not ID itself, but the attitude of scientists towards ID: "Unlike most of my colleagues, however, I don't see ID as a threat to biology, public education or the ideals of the republic. To the contrary, what worries me more is the way that many of my colleagues have responded to the challenge." He describes the "modern academy" as "a tedious intellectual monoculture where conformity and not contention is the norm." Turner explains that the "[r]eflexive hostility to ID is largely cut from that cloth: some ID critics are not so much worried about a hurtful climate as they are about a climate in which people are free to disagree with them." He then recounts and laments the hostility faced by Richard Sternberg at the Smithsonian:
It would be comforting if one could dismiss such incidents as the actions of a misguided few. But the intolerance that gave rise to the Sternberg debacle is all too common: you can see it in its unfiltered glory by taking a look at Web sites like pandasthumb.org or recursed.blogspot.com [Jeffry Shallit's blog] and following a few of the threads on ID. The attitudes on display there, which at the extreme verge on antireligious hysteria, can hardly be squared with the relatively innocuous (even if wrong-headed) ideas that sit at ID's core.
(J. Scott Turner, Signs of Design, The Christian Century, June 12, 2007.)
Turner on the Kitzmiller v. Dover Case
Turner sees the Kitzmiller v. Dover case as the dangerous real-world expression of the intolerance common in the academy: "My blood chills ... when these essentially harmless hypocrisies are joined with the all-American tradition of litigiousness, for it is in the hand of courts and lawyers that real damage to cherished academic ideas is likely to be done." He laments the fact that "courts are where many of my colleagues seem determined to go with the ID issue and predicts, I believe we will ultimately come to regret this."
Turner justifies his reasonable foresight by explaining that Kitzmiller only provided a pyrrhic victory for the pro-Darwin lobby:
Although there was general jubilation at the ruling, I think the joy will be short-lived, for we have affirmed the principle that a federal judge, not scientists or teachers, can dictate what is and what is not science, and what may or may not be taught in the classroom. Forgive me if I do not feel more free.
(J. Scott Turner, Signs of Design, The Christian Century, June 12, 2007.)
Turner on Education
Turner explains, quite accurately, that ID remains popular not because of some vast conspiracy or religious fanaticism, but because it deals with an evidentiary fact that resonates with many people, and Darwinian scientists do not respond to ID's arguments effectively:
[I]ntelligent design is one of multiple emerging critiques of materialism in science and evolution. Unfortunately, many scientists fail to see this, preferring the gross caricature that ID is simply "stealth creationism." But this strategy fails to meet the challenge. Rather than simply lament that so many people take ID seriously, scientists would do better to ask why so many take it seriously. The answer would be hard for us to bear: ID is not popular because the stupid or ignorant like it, but because neo-Darwinism's principled banishment of purpose seems less defensible each passing day.
(J. Scott Turner, Signs of Design, The Christian Century, June 12, 2007.)
Turner asks, What, then, is the harm in allowing teachers to deal with the subject as each sees fit? ID can't be taught, he explains, because most scientists believe that "normal standards of tolerance and academic freedom should not apply in the case of ID." He says that the mere suggestion that ID could be taught brings out "all manner of evasions and prevarications that are quite out of character for otherwise balanced, intelligent and reasonable people."
As we noted earlier, hopefully Turners criticisms will strike a chord with Darwinists who might otherwise close their ears to the argument for academic freedom for ID-proponents. Given the intolerance towards ID-sympathy that Turner describes, let us also hope that the chord is heard but the strummer is not harmed.
Whereas I do not doubt that some of the crevo-only posters were liberal, I believe most of them were conservative, at least fiscally conservative.
Evolution is Atheist religious Creativism..
ID is Agnostic quasi-religious Creativism...
Young earth Creationism asks who were the parents of the third human being on earth..
Another (smaller) group sees the bible not wholly literally as mostly metaphorical.. To them the age of the earth don't even matter.. since time is probably a mental construct of humans.. because their bodies die.. i.e. eternity..
Is that supposed to be toughie for science?
My question to the young earth creationist would be: Isn't God smart enough to know that having sex with your parents and siblings a bad idea?
Most creationists are not YEC and have no problem with the age of the universe though they may have disputes among themselves about the origin of man and/or other biological life (from a previous post of mine:)
Also, the Jews see the Torah as a direct revelation of God. We Christians see all of Scripture as a revelation of God. Moreover we Christians see the Father's most important revelations in Himself - in the Person of Jesus Christ and in the indwelling Holy Spirit.
But we are all individuals and tend to understand things somewhat differently. Moreover - at the forefront of these debates - and fueling resentments is the different understanding among Christians concerning the creation of man which derives, not from science, but from our understanding of Scripture.
Specifically, we Christians have different interpretations of Romans 5:1214 and I Corinthians 15:4248: one side says that Adam was the first mortal man and the other says that Adam was the first ensouled man. Thus, the interpretation among Christians concerning Genesis 1-3 (the origin of man) cuts this way:
Gosse Omphalus Hypothesis which says that Adam was the first mortal man and that God created an old looking universe some 6000 years ago in proper or absolute time.
Old Earth Creationism which says that Adam was the first ensouled man, that the universe is some 15 billion years old in proper or absolute time, that evolution occurred and Adam was ensouled some 6000 years ago in proper or absolute time.
Special Creationism which says that Adam was created some 6000 years ago in some unspecified time and place.
My view which is akin to Jewish physicist Gerald Schroeder's is that we must consider both relativity and inflationary theory that some 15 billion years from our space/time coordinates is equal to 6 equivalent earth days at the inception space/time coordinates. There is no conflict with Genesis 1.
I go a bit further than Schroeder in asserting that God is the author of Genesis and the only observer of His own Creation and thus we must look at those Scriptures from the inception perspective until Adam is banished to mortality at the end of chapter 3, at which point the space/time perspective changes to Adamic man.
Therefore, I assert that the first three chapters of Scripture deal with the creation not only of the physical realm but the spiritual as well (Gen 1:1, Gen 2:4-5) For Scriptural evidence I point to these:
God created the plants and herbs before they were in the earth (Gen 2:4-5)
Gods curse to Adam was that he would die in the day (Gen 2:17) he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil v that he died at age 930 (Gen 5:5) and that 1,000 years to man (Adamic perspective) should be understood as a day to God (Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8, Epistle of Barnabas, Enoch, et al).
The intersection or types in the physical realm and spiritual realm: Temple, Ark, Eden.
In sum - though I do not recall seeing a poll on the subject - it seems to me that most Christians and Jews would embrace the Intelligent Design hypothesis over Young Earth Creationism.
I have been posting on these threads for at least five years, and I am certain that most of the anti-evolution posters consider the most important things at stake to be the age of the earth and common descent -- concepts accepted by ID advocates.
There's a simple test of this. Just ask the people lurking or posting on this thread to check in and tell us if they accept common descent and a multi-billion year old earth and are, perhaps, merely concerned about the technical details of how variation occurs.
Yeah unless inbreeding was not to last forever..
You know, heaven and hell.. and man's bodies were merely a space suit so a "spirit" could function in this Universe..
DNA(rna) is/are plans for the space suit and have nothing to do with what life is..
More than likely they'll tell you you're headed straight to hell for believing the false religion of Darwinism.
With multiple misspellings, poor grammar, lots of capitals and maybe some colored fonts thrown in for good measure. And maybe as proof they'll reference the Second Law of Thermal Documents.
One does not go to hell because of what they believe or not believe..
You go to HELL because of who you AREN'T..
"You MUST be born again"- Jesus
Ray Bradbury wishes he had though of that for his Fahrenheit.
Huh?
If true, I would submit that the people on this forum who ignore the teachings of Jesus regarding revenge and treatment of one's enemies, are on the road to hell, regardless of their pious words. And non-believers, who believe those teachings in their hearts and practice those teachings, are better off. An interesting thought.
No cross forum attacks here. Can't happen.
On the other hand, no one on DC tries to win arguments by threatening their opponents with hellfire.
Being born again disqualifies you for HELL..
AND qualifies you for "Heaven".. whatever that is..
What you believe or disbeleive is minutia.. subject to the "Observer problem"..
Turn your collar back around you rascal..
True... I'm a bad bad man... a sinner really..
Difference between me and others is, I NEED Jesus.. They are self righteous..
Inbreeding appears to last as long as there are humans. If we are, in fact, descended from one pair of humans, and the human population was again bottlenecked with Noah's family, then everyone who has sex is, from a biological point of view, having sex with his parent's and siblings' space suits. Something for believers to think about.
Believers in what?..
I have noticed a distinct absence of self-righteousness and judgementalism in you. Your virtue in this regard sticks out like spines on a porcupine.
Believers that we are literally descended from two people. And again from eight. that would include all Jews, Christians and Muslims who take the Genesis creation story as literal history.
LoL... Hey.. Porcupines need love too.. carefully..
Is there anything else that disqualifies you?
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