Posted on 06/12/2007 3:22:43 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Tony Snow is about to appear live on FOX & Friends on FOX News. The subject is Bush's push for immigration "reform".
That would work but smells of “Big Brother” creep.
I say build a wall, enable local and state law enforcement to enforce federal law and send illegals back to their homes when they are found.
What do you do with a mom and pop store that may hire someone to do something, and THAT someone hires an illegal? There are a lot of ifs and buts for this.
Yes, and sadly Tony responded with canned talking points.
You’re right, Clint. First build the wall to stem the tide of further immigration, and enforce our current laws. Only then will we be ready to discuss the other stuff.
Fine, but to date you haven’t provided a workable alternative. It’s not sufficient to criticize what’s out there without providing your own workable plan. Call your rep or Senator or both and tell them to submit a plan that you agree with and tell them what it is.
Did you know that prior to this administration, the IRS couldn’t share the taxpayer information findings with Immigration?
Easy way to tell if someone is here illegally is to find a mismatch on a name and taxpayer ID and check the number of exemptions - 7 or 8: this is a good bet that the individual is here illegally.
A wall will fail. There’s already millions on this side of it... Just like trying to keep drugs out. As long as there’s high demand it will find its way here.
No job and nowhere to live brings it to an end.
Especially for the millions that are already here illegally. They’ll find their own way back home.
Over time, illegal immigrants would have to pay fines and fees of more than $9,000 (plus thousands more for each family member). They'd have to prove they're working and have no significant criminal record. They'd have to learn English and American civics. And, if they want legal permanent residence, they'd have to return to their home country to apply for it there. Getting a green card would take at least eight years, citizenship at least 13.
Some amnesty.
In a perfect world, it might be reasonable to say that everyone here illegally should be deported. Law breaking, obviously, cannot be ignored. But if that were possible at all - which is very dubious - the cost would run far into the billions.
Exactly who is going to monitor the first paragraph to see that its provisions are being met?
Exactly how much is that going to cost?
Exactly how is that Less expensive and more easily done than rounding them up and sending them home?
Or better yet, how about prosecuting employers who hire them, denying them welfare, free schooling, free medical care and then we won't even need a fence. But since the fence has been voted on and passed, maybe we should build it for those who want to sneak in and do harm.
Which would probably be more harm than the politicians have already done.
But it is kind of hard to see how a determined enemy can do more than politicians to destroy our money, our health care, our social security, our schools, our legal system, our military, our energy dependence, our farming, etc.
It is the guy that hired them. Not the mom and pop store people.
Just called the 800-417-7666 number to contact my senators and it’s busy. I’ve never gotten a busy signal. People must be jamming the lines pending this ‘visit’ from Bush today. I’m calling to tell my senators to hold firm. No deal. Cornyn told Lou Dobbs yesterday in effect ‘it’s always nice to visit with the president but I still have my concerns’. Sounds like he’s not moving!
Tell me what I said you disagree with.
Did Reagan have a Tony Snow to explain to us what he was doing?
I am sick to death of hearing this.
Answer this one question: do you seriously assert that you are willing to accept the legalization of 10 to 20 unskilled, uneducated, non-English speaking peasant laborers into America, along with the 20 to 40 million family members (spouse, parents, children) they may bring with them under the Z2 and Z3 visas?
Yes or no.
Go look at the number of business raided/fined for illegals under Clinton and then Bush II and get back to me. Clinton did a bad job while Bush did a far worse job.
It speaks volumes about what is currently happening and why.
Sadly, I arrived at this conclusion some time ago. I am opposed to this immigration bill because I think while its "strict" provisions are unenforceable, the Z visa is just a joke and it really doesn't solve any problems. But I think it was partly brought on by those very conservatives who were unwilling to discuss it a year ago, when Bush first floated an immigration plan. The matter has got to be dealt with but politicians are unwilling to touch it because they know it's a live wire, so Bush should at least have gotten points for having the courage to bring it up.
But he didn't, because the self-designated "base" was unwilling to discuss or permit discussion of alternatives to the unrealistic, draconian things they were advocating. Their constant ridicule and obvious hatred of the President probably did have a lot to do with getting Dems elected and ultimately worsening the conservative position. And I think it is driving conservatives away, because any attempt at rational discussion is met with invective and rage.
“Over time, illegal immigrants would have to pay fines and fees of more than $9,000 (plus thousands more for each family member). They’d have to prove they’re working and have no significant criminal record. They’d have to learn English and American civics. And, if they want legal permanent residence, they’d have to return to their home country to apply for it there. Getting a green card would take at least eight years, citizenship at least 13.”
Just curious, what happens if they don’t prove they’re working and have not criminal record? What happens if they refuse to learn English and American civics? Do we deport them? We don’t have the will to do it now, why would we in the future?
What if they’re not interested in citizenship, just in avoiding being hassled by ICE while they work here and receive benefits?
My guess is many illegal immigrants would like citizenship, but not if it costs them thousands of dollars, background checks, etc. Why, if they can just continue to work and not be hassled?
In practical terms, the real accomplishment of this bill would be to simply know who the illegal immigrants are, not to secure our borders, or make more of them citizens, or get them to vote for you. That’s assuming they want to give that information, for which there is no significant incentive if there isn’t any enforcement.
I'm going to grab one of your earlier posts to this thread, and show you point by point, line by line, how deeply uninformed you are.
It also explains why you are taking the Kumbaya position that you are, in the face of the monstrous social, cultural, and economic upheaval being forced upon an unwilling American citizenry.
That's Logically Challenged. If the pubbies beat back this abominable bill now, they will lose less seats in 2008. In turn, that means there will be less of a chance of the Dims foisting a bad bill in the next Congress.
OTOH, if they allow this bill to be passed, they will suffer a bloodbath at the polls in 2008. You can take that to the nack.
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