Posted on 05/30/2007 7:19:37 AM PDT by Reaganesque
WASHINGTON — Just a few weeks ago, advisers to Mitt Romney spoke about a steady, gradual climb from obscurity to the 2008 Republican presidential nomination. Mitt Romney, speaking in Lakeland, Fla., Thursday, appears to have momentum on his side among GOP presidential contenders.
Now, Romney has rocketed from behind and is leading the race or is neck and neck for the lead in the pivotal states of Iowa and New Hampshire.
The road to next January's voting still is marked by numerous potholes, including persistent charges that he's a flip-flopper without conviction, a Mormon faith still unfamiliar and perhaps suspect to some voters as well as potential new competition from former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and former Sen. Fred Thompson.
Also, his rapid rise may say as much about the fickleness of Republicans this early in the campaign as it does about the former Massachusetts governor.
But for now at least, Romney enters the summer astride the top tier and within reach of being able to claim that he's the front-runner for the nomination.
"He clearly has the three M's: media, money and momentum," independent pollster John Zogby said.
Romney led the field in fund raising in the first three months of this year. Yet until now, he trailed in popularity well behind Rudy Giuliani and Arizona Sen. John McCain in most polls, either nationally or in early voting states such as Iowa, New Hampshire or South Carolina.
However, a poll in Iowa by The Des Moines Register last week found Romney leaping ahead with the support of 30 percent of likely attendees at January's precinct caucuses, well ahead of McCain's 18 percent and Giuliani's 17 percent.
In another new Iowa survey by the Republican public relations firm Strategic Vision, Romney led with 20 percent, up sharply from 8 percent the month before. He was followed by Giuliani with 18 percent and McCain with 16 percent. (A third poll showed McCain with 18 percent, Giuliani with 17 percent and Romney with 16 percent.)
Romney surged in New Hampshire as well. A new Zogby poll there found he had the support of 35 percent of likely primary voters, up from 25 percent the month before. That was well ahead of Giuliani and McCain, each with 19 percent.
Analysts and insiders pointed to three reasons for the Romney rise:
• Good reviews from party members and pundits for his performance in the party's first debate, May 3 in California.
• Unusually early television advertising in Iowa and New Hampshire. Romney has been advertising there for weeks, boasting about his record as a business executive and governor. A new ad Thursday bragged that he cut spending and taxes as governor and "enforced immigration laws, stood up for traditional marriage and the sanctity of human life."
• His rivals are in trouble with the party's conservative base. Giuliani's support for abortion rights was highlighted in the first two debates, a problem in a party that still opposes abortion rights. McCain stood with Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., on an immigration bill widely reviled by conservatives as amnesty for illegal immigrants.
Romney's criticism of the immigration proposal — which is similar to one he supported a year ago — drew a sharp rebuke from McCain.
That, conservative strategist Greg Mueller said, was a mistake that helped elevate Romney as THE conservative critic of the unpopular proposal among the presidential candidates. "The McCain attack is the best thing that's happened to Romney since the day he got in," Mueller said.
He still faces formidable obstacles.
Foremost is the charge that he's a campaign convert to conservatism after running as a more moderate or liberal candidate in Massachusetts. Notably, he supported abortion rights when he ran for the Senate against Kennedy in 1994 and now opposes them.
"That could be his Achilles' heel," said David Johnson of Strategic Vision, which found in its new poll that Romney loses 4 percentage points of his support when voters are reminded that he supported abortion rights and gay rights in the 1990s.
"That's the one reluctance about Mitt Romney among conservatives," Johnson said. "They don't know if he's a true conservative."
The other potential challenge is his Mormon faith. In Iowa, the recent Register poll found that 1 out of 5 Republicans said they were less likely to vote for Romney because of his faith. But Mueller suggested that social conservatives eventually would care more about what Romney would do in the Oval Office than what he would do in church.
"Is there an undercurrent out there nervous about the Mormon thing? Sure. But they really want to know where he stands on the issues they care about," Mueller said.
Romney's campaign aides say he can answer the flip-flop questions by pointing to his record as governor.
"The only position he's ever changed is on life, and he changed in the right direction," Romney's campaign spokesman Kevin Madden said. "It was a matter of him recognizing he was wrong in the past and now he's right on the issue."
Madden also said that Romney's faith faded as an issue when people met the candidate and realized that he "shares the same hopes and aspirations that Americans of many faiths do."
In the end, those close to Romney tamp down any talk of his being the front-runner, perhaps fearful of raising expectations too high and setting him up for a fall if and when the polls in those early states change again.
"It's still fluid. I expect they will change," Madden said.
But he said the key to Romney's success of recent weeks and his hopes for the coming months were the same: that people get to know him and his record — and that they like him.
No barf alert ?
You can hardly hold up Dingy Harry as an example of a good Mormon here in Nevada. I know him and his family personally. Other local members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints do not consider him an exemplary member of the church. I believe he does go to church once in a while, but he is most definitely a MINO (Mormon In Name Only). That being said, X-Y-Z: your bigotry is showing.
I don’t share the religious doctrine of other religions, however, we do share commonalities in the form of conservative values and such. That is why I have many friends of many religious backgrounds. We agree to disagree and go about our lives.
Why are you so desperate to malign and criticize a religion you obviously know so little about? Anybody can put a website up and post falsehoods and half-truths about any religion or person - it’s done everyday. Why don’t you go grind your axe somewhere else, where people actually care that you are conducting yourself without dignity (like DU)? I usually like to lurk but you are very talented at being annoying. Good night!
So according to your post #130, your experience with “mormons” who have done bad things means all mormons are bad? Isn’t that a bit simplistic? There are bad apples in every religious barrel.
Every moment, he is looking stronger and stronger.
I am actively campaigning for tbe man in Northern Nevada. I’m excited to see how well he is doing. Go Mitt!
Whoops! It’s late and I have a sleeping baby on my lap. What I meant to say was, “I’m actively and happily campaigning for the man here in Northern Nevada.” Go Mitt!
Good for you! He is going to be the next president! : )
“You can hardly hold up Dingy Harry as an example of a good Mormon here in Nevada. I know him and his family personally. Other local members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints do not consider him an exemplary member of the church. I believe he does go to church once in a while, but he is most definitely a MINO (Mormon In Name Only).
I don’t hold Harry up as a good Mormon, I believe he is an example of what happens when Mormons get a God complex and go bad. That is the crux of the matter. I have met others like him, been threatened by them as well. In fact, I think you are about to threaten me with some sort of repercussions if I don’t kow tow to ‘the brotherhood’.
Next time you talk to Mr. Clean Face, ask him how his land deal is going with Jay Brown, mafia Mayor Oscar Goodman’s law partner, the guy who was in the scam land deals with Harry that got hushed up before the election. A lot of people don’t know how dangerous Harry is, it’s nice you are friends with the family. How’s Rory doing scamming water for that desert land in Searchlight?
“That being said, X-Y-Z: your bigotry is showing.”
Hummm, and I think your hatred of dissent is showing. Don’t be a hater! Be a Master Debater!
“Why are you so desperate to malign and criticize a religion you obviously know so little about?”
Oh, I know tons about Mormonism now, been researching it for a number of years. I always research people who threaten my life, it’s just a silly habit of mine. So I know how Mormons have to shut down criticism so they can have things their own way, I’ve been through that drill numerous times. I know how the nepotism works and the calls to the Bishop. And I know I better shut up quick, lest I irritate you even more and get marked for destruction by the hive.
“Anybody can put a website up and post falsehoods and half-truths about any religion or person - it’s done everyday.”
That’s why when you look up Amish and occultism you get thousands of hits :) Not.
“Why don’t you go grind your axe somewhere else,”
Well, the Temple won’t let me in.
“where people actually care that you are conducting yourself without dignity (like DU)?”
I am more in search of the truth than dignity. That sometimes leads to messy results, but at least I can sleep at night.
“I usually like to lurk but you are very talented at being annoying. Good night!”
Perhaps if I’ve irritated you too much, you can give Dario Herrera a call. Dario was the good Mormon everyone was supposed to support for Congress because he was a clean convert. He could use some friends now.
This quick story below gives a short version (adapted for kids). It doesn't mention the mob beating the printers and tarring and feathering them which also happened.
There are numerous histories, books and court affadavits, on the killing, murder, rape, violation of Constitutional rights, losing property, false imprisonment, Extermination Order, fored migration resulting in starvation and freezing to death. The killing of children at Haun's mill. Or the killing of Joseph Smith's infant son etc. etc.
I have ancestors who died on the plains due to the forced migration. There ia a mass grave site and memorial in Omaha, (Winter Quarters) Nebraska with the names of a few hundred children most under 5 who died. The MSM has been lying about it for years. but the record is there for anyone interested.
________________________________
Saving the Book of Commandments
Fifteen-year-old Mary Elizabeth Rollins and her thirteen-year-old sister Caroline lived in Independence, Jackson County, Missouri, in 1833. At this time, revelations Joseph Smith had received were being printed by William W. Phelps, who had opened a print shop and newspaper office on the upper floor of his home. The printed revelations were to be bound into a book called the Book of Commandments.
By July the non-Mormons in the area were angry because of the growing number of Mormons. Earlier in the year some people in Missouri had been trying to get the Mormons to move away from Jackson County. When Brother Phelps wrote a newspaper editorial that was misunderstood by the non-Mormons, it increased their anger. The non-Mormons held a town meeting and ordered the Mormons to leave their new homes or be killed. Mormon leaders called to the meeting were told they had only 15 minutes to move out of the county.
Before the 15 minutes had passed, the mob broke into the home of Brother Phelps. "Sister Phelps was alone with her children when the threatening mob surrounded the house" (p. 36). She quickly took "her sick baby in her arms [and] hurried with the other children ... to safety in the woods close by. Concealed in a corner of a nearby fence, Mary Elizabeth and Caroline watched with horror as the angry men rushed into the house [and threw] the family's [things] into the street. Upstairs the mob found the valuable press and ... eagerly they hurled the [printing press and type out the window] to the street below" (pp. 3637). Someone said, " 'So much for the Mormon commandments,' [and then] dumped the huge sheets of printed pages onto the pile of [trash] in the street. Mary Elizabeth decided to try to save the revelations. 'They will kill us!' warned Caroline" (p. 37), but she agreed to help.
When the mob had their backs turned, the girls ran into the street and filled their arms with the pages. They "were just turning away when some of the mob spotted them. ... Squeezing through a gap in the fence, [the girls] found themselves in a cornfield, hidden ... by thick rows of [cornstalks]" (p. 37). The men searched through the corn but could not find the girls, who had placed the "precious printed sheets on the ground [and] covered them with their bodies" (p. 37).
When the sound of footsteps faded, the girls made their way to an old log stable. "They approached cautiously ... [and] found Sister Phelps and her older children, carrying branches to pile up to make beds for the night" (p. 37). Knowing Brother Phelps would know what to do with the papers, the girls gave them to Sister Phelps.
Mary Elizabeth and Caroline were sad that they had not had time to read the revelations they had risked their lives to save. However, before long "Oliver Cowdery made up copies of the book, incomplete as it was, and gave one [book] to [Mary Elizabeth]. Two years later the revelations in the little Book of Commandments were [reprinted], together with [other revelations]" (p. 37). Today we have these important revelations printed in the Doctrine and Covenants.
Adapted from Maureen Ursenbach Beecher, "Discover Your Heritage: 'They Will Kill Us!' " New Era, Sept. 1974, 3637.
Carried out by Lilburn Boggs DEMOCRAT-Missouri
Fantastic! Thanks!
Well, looky there Mary Rollins (same age) is listed as one of Joe Smith's wives #9 (but by then she had another husband too). Isn't that convenient??
| Wife | Date | Age | Husband* |
| Emma Hale Fanny Alger Lucinda Morgan Harris Louisa Beaman Zina Huntington Jacobs Presendia Huntington Buell Agnes Coolbrith Sylvia Sessions Lyon Mary Rollins Lightner Patty Bartlett Sessions Marinda Johnson Hyde Elizabeth Davis Durfee Sarah Kingsley Cleveland Delcena Johnson Eliza R. Snow Sarah Ann Whitney Martha McBride Knight Ruth Vose Sayers Flora Ann Woodworth Emily Dow Partridge Eliza Maria Partridge Almera Johnson Lucy Walker Sarah Lawrence Maria Lawrence Helen Mar Kimball Hanna Ells Elvira Cowles Holmes Rhoda Richards Desdemona Fullmer Olive Frost Melissa Lott Nancy Winchester Fanny Young |
Jan 1827 1833 1838 Apr 1841 Oct 1841 Dec 1841 Jan 1842 Feb 1842 Feb 1842 Mar 1842 Apr 1842 Jun 1842 Jun 1842 Jul 1842 Jun 1842 Jul 1842 Aug 1842 Feb 1843 Spring 1843 Mar 1843 Mar 1843 Apr 1843 May 1843 May 1843 May 1843 May 1843 Mid 1843 Jun 1843 Jun 1843 Jul 1843 Mid 1843 Sep 1843 1843 Nov 1843 |
22 16 37 26 20 31 33 23 23 47 27 50 53 37 38 17 37 33 16 19 22 30 17 17 19 14 29 29 58 32 27 19 14 56 |
NONE NONE George W. Harris NONE Henry Jacobs Norman Buell NONE Windsor Lyon Adam Lightner David Sessions Orson Hyde Jabez Durfee John Cleveland NONE NONE NONE NONE Edward Sayers NONE NONE NONE NONE NONE NONE NONE NONE NONE Jonathan Holmes NONE NONE NONE NONE NONE NONE |
| * Living Husband at the time of Marriage to Joseph Smith |
References |
CC,
I believe your last post was for someone else. I never mentioned anything about Polygamy. Neither does the article. Up to your usual hijaking I see. Why don’t you start a thread titled “Mormons and Polygamy” so we can all ignore it and discuss Politics on this thread? Most people understand mormons practice polygamy.
R
Your post, if you had read it, mentions Mary Rollins and her sister Caroline.
I was showing that as a wife of Joseph Smith (and an illicit one at that) Mary’s testimony is hardly open and unbiased.
Proceed. But next time perhaps you should be familiar with the contents of your post so as not to embarrass yourself with your accusations of “hijacking.”
There is really a simple way to get me to be quiet about you generalizing to Mormons like me about Holy crickets. It's called an apology. I did it when I wrong and mixed up anti-mormon mormon papers from the 1800's. It's not that hard and you'll feel a lot better. Generally when a person is wrong on a point it is much easier if the mistake is admitted and you move on. I'm not asking you to apologize about al the other things you claim I believe which I disagre with but just about this one little point you got wrong about my belief system.
A simple decent apology about the cricket thing and I promise I will never bring it up again.
So as a plural wife we can ignore her version of event. Good. That means we can ignore your version of events too. Since you have some expereince in that area.
I never mentioned polygamy, but we were discussing Freedom of the Press. Which oriniganally started in response to another poster. You are still hijaking with your incessant focus on polygamy. Perhaps you’d like to explain on this thread about your experience with polygamy, as you have on other threads, so it can be about polygamy (again) and not about politics or Mitt Romney. Your assertion that polygamists are not open and unbiased applies to you as well.
BTW, Which particulars of the article in question do you dispute? That the printing press was destroyed. That the men were tarred and feathered? That Mormons Freedom of Speech was violated contrary to the Constitution? That the mob chased and searched for the girls?
If you took the same tack with Jewish history that you do with Mormons you’d find some good company.
As one who has had my sources ridiculed as being prejudiced, I see that the source you use for "saving the book of commandments" is the New Era magazine, an official magazine of the LDS church. Can you provide a neutral source for this story?
A clarification ... I use the candidate's stand on gun rights as a litmus test for the calibration of the candidate’s views on all the issues of individual rights. Since Liberals react to gun rights like vampires to sunlight, it goes to the core of the distinction between individual vs the collective argument, and outs them with one answer. Over the years, its as near 100% accurate Liberal detector as can be found.
Bush registers much less than true Conservative, and look what that has brought. During the candidate selection phase there is no need to compromise.
So now I am suposed to for your research for you? Most crimes committed against mormons have the testomony and witness of mormons to back it up as well as the testomony of the mobbers themselves. Many mobbers were open and honest and even bragged about the depredations (murder, rape, pillaging and burning homes etc.) the historical record of Mormons AND Anti-mormons support that Mormons life, liberty, and constitutional rights were violated. Many docuents are on file in the LoC including Pres. Martin Van Buren agreeing that Mormons constitutional rights had been violated but saying he would do nothing since he didn't want to get Missouri opposed to him politically.
This link has some court affadavits and historical sources cited about the incident in question where mobs burned Mormon printing presses.
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